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First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

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First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  meghory on 2/1/2012, 10:57 pm

I've been reading the book and would really like to start a square foot garden! Btw I know nothing about gardening! I have a few questions after reading. He mentions in the book about not planting two of the same crops next to each other. But if i planted lettuce in only one square wouldnt i only get one head of lettuce? He says something about planting lettuce and then planting again a few weeks later and then again instead of planting all at one time. How does this work? Do you leave empty squares to eventually plant it in? Also, I'm overwhelmed at the idea of starting plants indoors. Is this something that has to be done? With the exception of those veggies that take too long to grow of course. I'm also really confused about organizing what to plant when so that you can utilize each square 3 separate times(in Spring, Summer and Fall like he mentions in the book) I wish I had someone to tell me exactly where I need to start with what I want to grow. Help please! And thanks in advance

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  landarch on 2/1/2012, 11:31 pm

I am a beginner as well and I plan to keep things very simple my first year by not messing with starting seeds indoors. I will direct sow what I can (peas, lettuce, spinach, radish, carrots, beets),and buy bedding plants for time-crunched veggies (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage).

If you really like lettuce, you can either plant multiple squares (not adjacent to each other), or plant lettuce again in a square where something quick was harvested like radish.

Search all you can on people's garden plans in the forums...they often map/ diagram each square through the seasons. I think the goal is to get as many cool season crops in and harvested before summer crops need a square.

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  wncsohn on 2/1/2012, 11:46 pm

to the Mid-South Forum meghory!!!



Let me state up front, that although I've been reading about SFG for a couple years now and have wanted to do it, I haven't started yet! However, I think I may be able to help out a little. (or make you even more confused! Laughing )

First, take a deep breath! You've come to the right place ... the SFG forums! There are TONS of very knowledgable, experienced folks here who are more than happy to answer any questions!

He mentions in the book about not planting two of the same crops next to each other.

There are several reasons he suggests this. Although it's not set in stone I suppose lol #1 being it keeps you from planting too much of one item.

But if i planted lettuce in only one square wouldnt i only get one head of lettuce?

Usually the lettuce that is planted is "leaf" lettuce and not "head" lettuce. With leaf lettuce, you can plant 4 plants per square. Leaf lettuce is also one of those wonderful veggies that you can pick the outer leaves and the plant continues to grow. Therefore you will have a constant source of lettuce from just one square.

He says something about planting lettuce and then planting again a few weeks later and then again instead of planting all at one time. How does this work?

Staggered harvests. Let's use cabbage as an example. Say your family can/will eat one head of cabbage a week. If you plant 4 cabbage plants at one time, they are all ready to harvest at the same time. However, if you plant one cabbage plant each week, you will have a fresh cabbage plant ready to harvest each week.

Do you leave empty squares to eventually plant it in?

Most likely this is how your garden plan will work out. I'll use my "plan" as an example.

3/16 is the earliest I can sew things directly in the garden. I can plant Cabbage (1 SF), Alaska Garden Peas (1 SF), Bloomsdale Spinach (1 SF). That's only 3 squares out of a 4x4 bed (16 squares) so I'll have 13 squares left.

3/23 I can start my onions (1 SF) - 12 squares left.

3/30 I can start planting carrots (1 SF) and lettuce (3 SF) because I'm going to "seperate" the lettuce (i.e. not plant next to each other). This leaves 8 squares. . .

And so on and so forth ...

No you do not have to start indoor seeding. As a matter of fact, in the book Mel says ...

"If you're a brand new gardener, however, you may want to wait until next year to start your own transplants."

Don't hesitate to get transplants from your local farm store or even a big box store! Once you've had some success with SFG you'll eventually feel more comfortable with the idea of starting seeds inside! Smile

I'm also really confused about organizing what to plant when so that you can utilize each square 3 separate times(in Spring, Summer and Fall like he mentions in the book)

I'm going to use my "plan" again as an example of what this means. I can plant a cabbage seed (Spring) on 3/16 directly in my garden. It takes approximately 10 weeks to mature, so it would be ready to harvest around 5/25. On 5/25 I can plant a square with "Emerald Giant Green Peppers" .. so I could plant it in the square I just emptied. (Summer) It will be ready to harvest/pull up approximately 8/17. On 8/17 I can plant another cabbage seed (Fall) in that same square.

One square, used 3x .. Spring, Summer, Fall ...

I know it can all seem VERY confusing and overwhelming, which is why Mel suggests starting small, especially if you've never gardened before.

Take your time, read through the forums and most of all, enjoy yourself!

Here's a handy link to help "visualize" a garden plan you may be thinking of. Decide on garden size, then start clicking and dragging items into squares! Smile

http://www.gardeners.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Gardeners-Site/default/Page-KitchenGardenDesigner

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  Chopper on 2/2/2012, 2:11 am

Think of each square as its own 'row'. So a 'row' of lettuce, a 'row' of peas etc. But it is compacted into one square.

Leaf lettuce is four per square. If you want 8 heads of leaf lettuce, plant two squares. They can be adjacent to each other if you want, but do not need to be. I have heard Mel laugh and say that people still use SFGs like row gardens - they cannot get their heads wrapped around the concept of one crop per square. It is different.

For staggering, it can mean that in your one square that you plant lettuce you only plant one corner per week until all four are planted. Or it could mean you plant one square a week. That is up to you and depends how much you ultimately expect to use.

As far as three crops, do not get too tied up into timing. Your veggies will do what they do. Just know that when you empty a square, you can add a little compost and immediately plant again with any plant that is in season. Some squares might yield three crops (eg. lettuce, peppers, peas) or two crops or one crop. It depends on when and what you plant and how long it lasts or how soon you use it.

This is by far the most relaxing vegetable gardening you will ever do, so relax! and go with the flow. Let your garden tell you what to do.

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  meghory on 2/2/2012, 10:35 am

Thanks guys! This makes so much more sense to me now! Sometimes just hearing something in a different way helps. Since researching some more last night I've got one more very important aspect of gardening that I'm confused about, the compost! Am I right in assuming that since I'm just starting I should buy it for this year and start making my own for next year? I'm confused about making sure I have the right proportions of ingredients when making my own and also the best way to go about it. Any tips?

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  wncsohn on 2/2/2012, 11:28 am

Yes, it's best to buy your 5 different composts to start out with. And start some sort of compost set-up of your own ASAP. Definately browse through the compost forum as there is tons of info there! I'm still learning new things myself, here on this website!

I read a post on the "How Strong Is Your Backbone" thread that really simplified mixing the ingredients in my mind. Personally, I would suggest reading through that thread a few times! Smile

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  quiltbea on 2/2/2012, 11:42 am

meg....Welcome to the forum. You've gotten some very good advice already. Just don't feel overwhelmed. Take it one step at a time, one raised bed at a time if need be. I didn't start my own seeds nor have any compost made my first year, but by golly, it was fun learning day by day.

You don't have to start your seeds at all. That's why nurseries and the building supply stores like Lowe's and Home Depot and even Walmart have garden centers where you can BUY your transplants. You won't have the variety of choices you would if you started your own seeds, but they are usually favorite varieties and will do well for you. So just take the plunge and get started. Read the threads. Lots of info and pictures on this forum. Good luck.

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  ashort on 2/2/2012, 9:54 pm

I'll echo quiltbea -you have been given some good advice. Remember, we were all new at this at one point in time... this is just my second year.... as my funds and time are tied up in making new beds, I will be buying transplants for spring again this year... maybe by midsummer I can get my act together enough to do some seed starts...

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Good Luck

Post  CharlesB on 2/2/2012, 11:07 pm

@meghory wrote:Thanks guys! This makes so much more sense to me now! Sometimes just hearing something in a different way helps. Since researching some more last night I've got one more very important aspect of gardening that I'm confused about, the compost! Am I right in assuming that since I'm just starting I should buy it for this year and start making my own for next year? I'm confused about making sure I have the right proportions of ingredients when making my own and also the best way to go about it. Any tips?

You'll be lucky to find one source of good compost you can buy much less 5. Just do your best. Also don't sweat starting out, we all screw up all the time. That is how you learn. And guess what, when you screw up bad, you simply compost the mistake, no problem.

Planting starts will work fine for you. Just make sure it is warm enough out for the plants you want to start. You can always try some seeds and if they don't come up in a week, throw some starts in there.

Have fun. You won't be disappointed you tried to do this, it is a blast.

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Not all store bought compost is equal

Post  tomperrin on 2/2/2012, 11:14 pm

The deep understanding of why you want to buy 5 different kinds of compost, as Mel suggests in ANSFG, comes only after you have sought out and purchased those 5 different kinds of compost. They all bring different things to the mixing tarp. You will love some and hate others, but they are all good, albeit each in its own way. The quest for the 5 different kinds may also get you out there in the field, and you may end up visiting 10 different retail outlets to get what you need. The information you acquire on the quest will serve you well in the future. It's simply something you can't get out of a book. You have to walk the walk.

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Hey

Post  CharlesB on 2/3/2012, 8:35 am

Hey Tomperrin, thx for the advice. If you live near Trenton I am not far from you. I have a horrible time finding sources of compost. If you have any spots you would share with me I would really appreciate it.

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Compost Supply

Post  tomperrin on 2/3/2012, 9:05 am

I get my bulk leaf compost from Herman's Landscape Supply just north of Ft Dix.

http://www.hermanslandscapesupply.com/

But first read the perils of unsifted compost at:

http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t9976p45-compost#97614

Redmond's Mulch and Stone World on Route 206 in Easthampton is my source for bulk Mushroom Compost

http://www.mulchandstoneworld.com/

Bagged mushroom compost is very hard to find. My one source didn't get it in until late in the season when I had already bought it in bulk.

All the garden supply places, box stores, etc. carry bagged compost in various configurations. But the stores are currently dormant. Home Depot by us is rearranging its shelves and does not have anything available.

A lot depends on how far you are willing to travel and how much you need to get.

There are also a couple of places on Rt 130 between Hamilton and Windsor. But they were not yet open last weekend.

Tom

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  jkahn2eb on 2/3/2012, 9:12 am

Lots of great advice. I was just going to advise a little whiskey might help bring everything into focus.... and then perhaps out of focus.

You'll do fine. Everyone makes mistakes their first go-around and you learn from them but I guarantee you'll have food to eat. Then you'll make new mistakes your second time and hopefully learn from them. I'm on my third round of mistakes.

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PS re Compost Supply

Post  tomperrin on 2/3/2012, 3:10 pm

Just went to Walmart. Asked the clerk if there was any compost left. She said no, but I was free to look. Way back in a corner were two pallets, two brands of compost, last year's leftovers. $3.28 + tax.

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  shannon1 on 2/4/2012, 2:44 am

Welcome Meg!!!!! Glad you found us you can look on "freecycle" sometimes if you'er lucky you can find compost and other things for your garden free of charge. I have used the local ag. center's free compost back when they had it. I just love free stuff. In empty squares or pots for that matter I plant green onion sets because they grow really fast and taste so good. In fact I just mixed up some MM this morning for 2 planters I am going to plant cucumber vines but it is just too cool now so I will be planting onions tomorrow AM. I like to keep my crops seperated by a square or 2 just to help confuse the insects. Some one here said something I liked "Man made his first mistake in a garden." I thought that was great even though I am not a christian. So don't be afraid we all learn from our mistakes. Just do your best and go on and get those hands dirty.cheers

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  HieronRemade on 2/4/2012, 9:53 am

I just wanted to clarify something, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but Mel only talks about not planting the same crop in adjacent squares because he thinks it's more aesthetically pleasing to change it up, right? I don't remember there being any reason as far as plant health or better crops or anything. Anyway it just sounded like Meg thought it was a technical requirement so I thought I'd ask!

Mike

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  camprn on 2/4/2012, 10:07 am

@HieronRemade wrote:I just wanted to clarify something, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but Mel only talks about not planting the same crop in adjacent squares because he thinks it's more aesthetically pleasing to change it up, right? I don't remember there being any reason as far as plant health or better crops or anything. Anyway it just sounded like Meg thought it was a technical requirement so I thought I'd ask!

Mike
Mike, I believe you are correct! What a Face

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  HieronRemade on 2/4/2012, 10:10 am

Ha ok good. Maybe it's kind of "Monk-ish" of me, but I like having my crops together in tidy groups, lol.

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  quiltbea on 2/4/2012, 11:44 am

I believe Mel does different crops so the trace elements in the box aren't completely depleted of one item. That's why amendments aren't needed in the NEW SFG, only compost. Also growing a small near a large utilizes the spaces in a better fashion since he doesn't plant every seed for one crop at one time but staggers them thru the season. What person wants to have 9 cabbages ready the same week? Just plant a few later in another bed.

Personally, I found it harder for their special needs during the season if I planted EVERY square with something different. This year I'm putting a few of the same crops together tho I will stagger their planting times in other boxes. This way I'm still not depleting all the trace elements with a whole box of one crop. When it comes to care, especially if they need more shade with cheesecloth or heat with plastic or protective cover against certain insects and also for their particular watering needs, it'll be simpler to tend 2 or 4 squares of the same plant. Some need more water than others and it'll also be easier to check each plant's progress. I'm so looking forward to another growing season.

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  Furbalsmom on 2/4/2012, 1:16 pm

ANSFG page 36 wrote:There are many interelated reasons for the "different crop in every Square Foot" rule. They deal with nutrients used, limiting over ambitious planting, staggered harvests, weed and pest control, beauty of the garden, companion planting, simplification of crop rotation, cutting planting time in half, and many more factors that result in a very unusual and innovative gardening system

That said, I still plant all of my cole crops (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, kohlrabi) in one box so I can cover them with tulle to keep out the Nasty Cabbage Worms What a Face . That means I really need to grow them in another box the next year and then the year after that.

I also grow all my bush beans in one box for ease of harvesting.

I guess there still is a bit of "Row Gardener" in me. Embarassed

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  camprn on 2/4/2012, 1:19 pm

@Furbalsmom wrote:

I guess there still is a bit of "Row Gardener" in me. Embarassed
LOL, that could be, but I prefer to look at it as, you have knowledge and you know how to use it for maximum benefit!

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  shannon1 on 2/5/2012, 1:34 am

I'm sure it must have been in the old book but not having the same plants together "monoculture style" is to help prevent pest and diesease problems. If I make it to the Eustis landscape and garden fair I will ask him. He will be at the expert tent on the 11th and 12th. If anyone wants to go.Wink

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  kesugeo on 2/7/2012, 10:16 pm

Wow, the more I read the more I personally get myself wrapped around the axel about the small detail and start thinking I cannot do this. I am a city boy at heart after all.

Maybe I should just let the girlfriend do it and support her efforts.

pig and mushroom and plant compost oh my ....Shocked

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  Windsor.Parker on 2/8/2012, 2:27 am

@kesugeo wrote:Wow, the more I read the more I personally get myself wrapped around the axel about the small detail and start thinking I cannot do this. I am a city boy at heart after all.

Maybe I should just let the girlfriend do it and support her efforts.

pig and mushroom and plant compost oh my ....Shocked
...and worm castings, and cow manure compost, and "coarse" vermiculite, and sphagnum peat moss, and a mixing tarp, and bed frames, and trellises, and...
affraid
I'm a city boy, too! And I'm sure each of us can do this. Seriously, you're not gonna let your girlfriend have all the fun?

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

Post  shannon1 on 2/8/2012, 4:47 am

I know you guys can do it just brake it down into steps. Find a sunny spot, build a 4x4 box, mix your 5 kinds of compost, then mix the magical Mels Mix 1 part mixed compost , 1 part fluffed Pete, 1part course grade vermiculite. Fill box 1/3 water, another 1/3 water, another 1/3 water. Then hardest part is done. Install the grid of your choice and a trilis on the north side for your vines.

Then let the fun start.

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Re: First timer and overwhelmed. Help!

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