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Pre-made mels mix

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Re: Mels Mix

Post  tabletopper on 6/26/2012, 7:07 pm

Southern Gardner.....your Gro Well address is in Ariz....that might be the problem....the other address was Conn.....maybe its just our western problem....

I have only 34 squares at the present time as I broke my hip a few months ago.....but I was still looking forward to my fresh veggies this summer......You are such at great warrior......at 87 yrs old I dont have energy left to persue this.....I didnt keep any receipts....I hope you get your replacement and it works wonders....Happy Gardening Ruth

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  BrotherNorm on 6/27/2012, 8:50 am

I have to tell you I'm not sold on Mel's Mix. There are plenty of threads that talk to the fact that a first year MM may not have good results but the following year would be better. This is my first year so I won't know the veracity of that until next year.

That being said there are folks with gardens around me that are using various planting soils from the big box stores and theirs are doing much better then mine. I've harvested a few things but in general most veggies are either not growing past where they were a month and a half ago or the yield is low.

As an experiment I started another block of squares and I'm using a different mix. I want to compare the results.

I've given some thought to the components of MM and to me there seems to be an imbalance. V makes up 1/3. This adds no nutrients for the plants. Its only purpose is to retain water and prevent the soil from compacting which improves airflow within the soil.

1/3 peat, adds no nutrients to the soil until it completely breaks down whic would take more than a year. Holds moisture only when it stay's very wet and if let to dry out acts like desiccant.

1/3 compost, adds nutrients but the nutrients it brings to the table can very widely depending on the compost that is added.

So, 2/3 of the mix adds little (peat) to nothing in the overall nutrient value of the mix. And depending on the composts chosen the problem could be exacerbated at worst or still not add all that's required at best with mixed results from year to year depending on the availability of the composts.

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  RoOsTeR on 6/27/2012, 9:25 am

@BrotherNorm wrote:I have to tell you I'm not sold on Mel's Mix. There are plenty of threads that talk to the fact that a first year MM may not have good results but the following year would be better. This is my first year so I won't know the veracity of that until next year.

That being said there are folks with gardens around me that are using various planting soils from the big box stores and theirs are doing much better then mine. I've harvested a few things but in general most veggies are either not growing past where they were a month and a half ago or the yield is low.

As an experiment I started another block of squares and I'm using a different mix. I want to compare the results.

I've given some thought to the components of MM and to me there seems to be an imbalance. V makes up 1/3. This adds no nutrients for the plants. Its only purpose is to retain water and prevent the soil from compacting which improves airflow within the soil.

1/3 peat, adds no nutrients to the soil until it completely breaks down whic would take more than a year. Holds moisture only when it stay's very wet and if let to dry out acts like desiccant.

1/3 compost, adds nutrients but the nutrients it brings to the table can very widely depending on the compost that is added.

So, 2/3 of the mix adds little (peat) to nothing in the overall nutrient value of the mix. And depending on the composts chosen the problem could be exacerbated at worst or still not add all that's required at best with mixed results from year to year depending on the availability of the composts.

Mel's always looking for new ideas to improve the method. If you come up with something better, let him know Very Happy

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  Turan on 6/27/2012, 10:53 am

@BrotherNorm wrote:
As an experiment I started another block of squares and I'm using a different mix. I want to compare the results.

What sort of mix are you experimenting with? One reason I ask is because most potting mixes are seem to be mostly peat with vermiculite or perlight and possibly a forest product compost with fertilizers mixed in. Or are you making your own mix?

I suspect if one has to buy components, including compost, it is hard to make a bio active ecology of soil that can feed plants well, hence the need for adding fertilizers.

Just for clarity of where I stand in all this..... My beds are filled with my compost that was originally tilled into my garden soil. Since then I have added more compost and sand over the years and a bit of bone meal etc.

I am curious how many of the long time SFGers here use some sort of fertilizer amendments in their beds? That would include chickety doo etc anything with a listed NPK if bought or similar if home grown like compost teas. Maybe that is another thread.

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  mhjr5500 on 6/27/2012, 11:14 am

Why can't you just use something like miricale gro potting mix?

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  Yus on 6/27/2012, 4:59 pm

Why can't you just use something like miricale gro potting mix?
I have read that it supposedly won't support the intensive planting spacing over the course of the season. You could try it and report back; add fertilizer as necessary. It appears most gardeners just pick and choose certain features of SFG that they like and use them.

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  plantoid on 6/27/2012, 7:28 pm

Norm you hit the nail on the head about the 1/3 nutrient theme.

Mel's words are true honest and were very pertinent when the book was printed. I'm sure that the bags of compost etc displayed in the pictures in the book did indeed contain useful levels of nutrients and were well composted .

However that book is now seven years old , the pictures perhaps even older and the world is in recession bordering on a depression , so corners will have been cut time and time again wiith respect togetting decent composts with sensible nutrient levels in it .

I'm betting most will now be manufactured to the minumum legal requirements because of cost , time constraints & cash flow / ROI difficuities ..

The big problem is getting those five different composts well made , so that they have the right nutrient levels and no weed killer , no barely composted matter or excess of partly composted woody materials. My thinking is that most commercial composts will usually contain whatever there is a lot of and if it is cheap then so much the better.

Where there is a a bag described of as containing neat guano , fish , pelleted chicken waste , bags composted dairy cow or steer dung then you will get exactly that but wehre there is an endles list of contents to the bag it is doubtful that you wil be getting the higher quality stuff the we need for making our MM .

I understood this after reading Mel's book twice and as a consequence have sourced all sorts of animal manures and beddings for my own blended compost as well as getting hold of some 4 yr old cold composted stable muck with wood pulp and straw in it for the initial making of the MM

My garden is growing like crazy .

Picture of my own home made compost from veg waste , six or more types of manure and some barley straw . This is what I will be replenishing nutrients in emptied square with.







This is a commercially composted material which has added nutrients aparently , note the gert big mess of uncomposted root ball that actually grew inside one of the bags along with glass , plastic and very big bits of cut up hard & soft woods .

I used it in my new greenhouse salad beds ,it would not grow anything in it till I to scratched some fish , blood and bone meal into the top 1/2 inch & left it for 10 day befiore sowing into it and putting some seedlings in . I suspect the reason for no growth was it was robbing the nitrogen out the compost due to the uncomposted wood /hard fibre content taking it big time .





This is my trailer of MM for topping up the beds , filling seed trays , plant pots & big tubs

It is straight composted coconut fibres & peat , coarse vermiculite and a blend of of pig , sheep , duck , turkey , goose , cattle , chicken , rabbit and horse muck with beddings .

It's that good you could grow extra legs on your baby brother by just having him stand next to the trailer .


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Re:Mels Mix

Post  tabletopper on 6/27/2012, 10:07 pm

Brother Norm.........you are in Virginia........so it must be more wide spread than Calif....where Southern Gardner and I am in the Calif Area..........I have used purchased Mels Mix in the past and been happy but must add steer, chicken or worm compost with each new planting of a square....

So time will tell what the problem is and how wide spread it is..........

Speak up...other forum members......we are not the only ones buying Mels Mix........Ruth

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  southern gardener on 6/28/2012, 12:49 am

we just harvested two boxes, of onions, 288 total. Only two were even somewhat usable. The rest were not much bigger than they were as "sets" in the fall. The tops looked pretty good, and loooong root systems, but not much "onion" Sad . I hope my replacement soil gets here soon! bounce

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  BrotherNorm on 6/28/2012, 9:55 am

@Turan wrote:
@BrotherNorm wrote:
As an experiment I started another block of squares and I'm using a different mix. I want to compare the results.

What sort of mix are you experimenting with? One reason I ask is because most potting mixes are seem to be mostly peat with vermiculite or perlight and possibly a forest product compost with fertilizers mixed in. Or are you making your own mix?

I suspect if one has to buy components, including compost, it is hard to make a bio active ecology of soil that can feed plants well, hence the need for adding fertilizers.

Just for clarity of where I stand in all this..... My beds are filled with my compost that was originally tilled into my garden soil. Since then I have added more compost and sand over the years and a bit of bone meal etc.

I am curious how many of the long time SFGers here use some sort of fertilizer amendments in their beds? That would include chickety doo etc anything with a listed NPK if bought or similar if home grown like compost teas. Maybe that is another thread.



Sorry for the late response. Work had me traveling the last few days. So in response to the question regarding the mix that I'm using. After I harvested my potatoes, which by the way delivered a disappointing yield I reused that MM since I already spent the money and added this new product I found called Sweet Peet. I know, it has "peet" in the name and considering my going on about peet in the first post you're probably wondering....

Any-who, the name is actually a little misleading as it more than just peet. Look here:

http://www.sweetpeet.com/

I added one bag which is about 3 cubic feet to the MM and commenced sowing. I sowed five squares each of pole beans, bush beans and carrots on Saturday the 23rd. On Monday the 25th the pole and bush beans sprouted and as of this morning are about an inch or two high with at least one pair of leaves with some having more than one pair.

It's still too early to draw an conclusions but so far things are off to a good start. What I am interested to see is if I have the same developmental problems that I'm currently experiencing with the rest of my squares, i.e. things seem to be not dieing but not growing either.

Cheers...


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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  southern gardener on 6/28/2012, 11:50 am

Ty for the video link. I watched it. It sounds like the base of it is primarily horse stall manure/shavings? I'm curious as to how well things grow with it? Please do keep us updated! I'd LOVE to have a truckload to mulch our property, it's sure nice looking!

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  BrotherNorm on 6/28/2012, 12:35 pm

@southern gardener wrote:Ty for the video link. I watched it. It sounds like the base of it is primarily horse stall manure/shavings? I'm curious as to how well things grow with it? Please do keep us updated! I'd LOVE to have a truckload to mulch our property, it's sure nice looking!

Will do. So you know the stuff isn't real cheap. It cost about $8.00 for a 40 pound bag.

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  westx on 6/28/2012, 9:08 pm

Mels best idea was in his first book and is the reason I still follow that method and have been since the book came out. I do use a Square Foot Garden premix made in Austin Tx in my beds mixed with a vegie garden soil mix by a large landscape supply company. The premix I use has coir instead of peat because peat has antimicrobial tendencies so not only does it not add anything to the mix it actually takes away from it IMHO. I add my own compost the beds after they are cleaned out and add some organic food to it also. While plants are growing I spray them with a liquid compound once every 2-3 weeks. Besides bugs getting to some of my plants when I am not pay attention to what is going on I have had very good luck with my program. Hate to hear the other Mels mix is have the quality problems it is having.

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  southern gardener on 7/12/2012, 5:59 pm

UPDATE! I just received an email from Rick at GroWell. He wanted to know our address to replace the soil! yahoo!! Now, DH has to unload all the beds, and re-fill, in his "spare" time ...lol. I'm super excited!! bounce bounce

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  plantoid on 7/12/2012, 6:14 pm

Norm ,
The Sweet Peet vid clip & advertizing on the home page shows it as a soil conditioner ...I'm not surprised for the stabled horses on shavings is a very high wood content and will take a couple of years to decay into anything useful ..

On the home page it shows it to be a mulch that will kill / smother weeds or in other word not support growth.

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Re: pre-made Mels Mix

Post  tabletopper on 7/12/2012, 6:18 pm

Great News.......as I remember the bags say satisfaction guarenteed.....but it seemed forever didnt it......?????

I am redoing a couple of my boxes with hardware bottoms.....so my garden is still In Progress......Ruth

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  southern gardener on 7/12/2012, 7:09 pm

Ruth...I told Mel about you too! I hope he has them help you out too. I'm so anxious to get the soil! now...to tear out all of the boxes or leave what's decent and wait for fall crops??

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Re:Pre made Mels Mix

Post  tabletopper on 7/12/2012, 7:12 pm

Thank you very much......we both have a lot of extra work ahead of us....Ruth

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  Momof5Js on 7/12/2012, 7:37 pm

I know this thread is for the premixed, bagged Mel's Mix. But I seem to be having the same type of problems with my SFG (new this year.) We built 12 4x4 boxes and bought loads of verm, peat, and 5 kinds of compost. Mixed in 2 batches and then mixed together. Hardly anything is growing and alot is dead or dying. I planted 1 full box of peas (in early spring) and lost it all. I have lost a whole box except 4 sickly plants of green beans. My cucumbers are on the downhill slide. Maybe it is the combination of ingredients. I am not sure. I just know I am disappointed after so much time and $$$.

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  southern gardener on 7/12/2012, 7:46 pm

@Momof5Js wrote:I know this thread is for the premixed, bagged Mel's Mix. But I seem to be having the same type of problems with my SFG (new this year.) We built 12 4x4 boxes and bought loads of verm, peat, and 5 kinds of compost. Mixed in 2 batches and then mixed together. Hardly anything is growing and alot is dead or dying. I planted 1 full box of peas (in early spring) and lost it all. I have lost a whole box except 4 sickly plants of green beans. My cucumbers are on the downhill slide. Maybe it is the combination of ingredients. I am not sure. I just know I am disappointed after so much time and $$$.

Oh man, I'm so sorry. It's so frustrating, I know. I'm hoping this new batch of soil works, as this will be the THIRD try for SFG. I did use it years ago, with great success, but it sure seems hard to "get it right". I'd love to hear from people who are REALLY successful with it, and what they attribute it to? It seems like a simple concept, but boy, lotsa failures...anyone??

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  Momof5Js on 7/12/2012, 8:02 pm

@southern gardener wrote:
Oh man, I'm so sorry. It's so frustrating, I know. I'm hoping this new batch of soil works, as this will be the THIRD try for SFG. I did use it years ago, with great success, but it sure seems hard to "get it right". I'd love to hear from people who are REALLY successful with it, and what they attribute it to? It seems like a simple concept, but boy, lotsa failures...anyone??

Thanks for the encouragement. I did a post with a few pics earlier hoping an expert can help me.

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  RoOsTeR on 7/12/2012, 8:20 pm

Well, I've had tremendous results with Square Foot Gardening and Mel's Mix. I opted to make my own mix, and am also lucky enough that I took Mel's advice and started my own compost right away so I no longer have to rely on commercial products.
Folks need to also remember that there's a learning curve to ANY gardening. Using Mel's Mix can give you spectacular results, but it's only part of the equation. There's also, climate, weather, pests, watering, disease, etc. I think it's unfortunate that all the blame gets put on Mel's Mix all the time. There's also user error. I know I've sure made my fair share of mistakes. Like my signature states, "I'm my gardens worst enemy." And I truly believe that sometimes.

Here are some of my first year results using the All New Square Foot Gardening method:













Note: I just took all these pictures minutes ago.

Happy Square Foot Gardening


Last edited by RoOsTeR on 7/12/2012, 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  Momof5Js on 7/12/2012, 8:30 pm

@RoOsTeR wrote:Well, I've have tremendous results with Square Foot Gardening and Mel's Mix. I opted to make my own mix, and am also lucky enough that I took Mel's advice and started my own compost right away so I no longer have to rely on commercial products.
Folks need to also remember that there's a learning curve to ANY gardening. Using Mel's Mix can give you spectacular results, but it's only part of the equation. There's also, climate, weather, pests, watering, disease, etc. I think it's unfortunate that all the blame gets put on Mel's Mix all the time. There's also user error. I know I've sure made my fair share of mistakes. Like my signature states, "I'm my gardens worst enemy." And I truly believe that sometimes.

Thanks for the photos. Your garden is wonderful. I am sorry if I appeared to lay all "the blame" on the mix. I am sure I have done several things wrong up to this point and will continue to do so. I am just trying to figure out what the wrong thing (or things for that matter) is. Am I watering too much, too little? Too much sun? I have never, ever grown anything in a garden. So I do consider the few tomatoes I have eaten a success. Thanks for the site. I do enjoy my sfgardening.

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  southern gardener on 7/12/2012, 8:43 pm

@Momof5Js wrote:
@RoOsTeR wrote:Well, I've have tremendous results with Square Foot Gardening and Mel's Mix. I opted to make my own mix, and am also lucky enough that I took Mel's advice and started my own compost right away so I no longer have to rely on commercial products.
Folks need to also remember that there's a learning curve to ANY gardening. Using Mel's Mix can give you spectacular results, but it's only part of the equation. There's also, climate, weather, pests, watering, disease, etc. I think it's unfortunate that all the blame gets put on Mel's Mix all the time. There's also user error. I know I've sure made my fair share of mistakes. Like my signature states, "I'm my gardens worst enemy." And I truly believe that sometimes.

Thanks for the photos. Your garden is wonderful. I am sorry if I appeared to lay all "the blame" on the mix. I am sure I have done several things wrong up to this point and will continue to do so. I am just trying to figure out what the wrong thing (or things for that matter) is. Am I watering too much, too little? Too much sun? I have never, ever grown anything in a garden. So I do consider the few tomatoes I have eaten a success. Thanks for the site. I do enjoy my sfgardening.

I didn't feel you were putting all the blame on Mel's Mix at all! I don't think people do blame it all on the mix, there's bugs, pests, birds, weather (although we live in just about the most perfect climate!! lucky us!). I hope you can figure it out, and fix whatever it is! good luck!!

Beautiful garden Rooster! cockadoodledooooooooooooo!

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Re: Pre-made mels mix

Post  RoOsTeR on 7/12/2012, 9:32 pm

I apologize if my post came off sounding the wrong way. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad about their Mix or methods, but just to remind folks that there really is success and there are lots of variables involved.
If you look hard enough, you can see some of my failures as well. Not everything grows well all the time.

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