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Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  plantoid on 7/24/2012, 6:22 pm

Looks like they can plant with edible flowers then such as marrows , cauli flowers , onions , garlic and of course ornamental cabbages ,nasturtiums , ornamental lettuces .ornamental carrots ( vetches ) and asparagus ferns.
I'd even grow french climbing beans just for their georgeous red flowers .

I'd take the all the front as garden and include the drive /parking space then subtract the parking space and all foot ways ... the actual cultivated area will be way less than 30 %.
If the local authority / utilitiy suppliers etc. need to dig up the front gardens then they will ....be they grassed, tarmac'ed or under cultivation.
So whats the bitching really for ?

If push came to shove I'd just remove the veg and weed spray what's left on a regular basis and see what they say then .

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  plantoid on 7/24/2012, 6:28 pm

@GWN wrote:I guess they could squeeze in a little lawn. somewhere.

I just cannot wrap my brain around a ruling that says you HAVE to have lawn. It is obviously a HUGE business, lawnmowers, seed, fertilizer, etc etc....
I have not had lawn in about 25 years and somehow it seems like it would be a personal violation to be told I HAD to have lawn.

Laughing Would they witch if you had astro turf instead of grass so you don't have to use polluting machines to continually cut it ?

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  LtTawnyMadison on 7/24/2012, 8:17 pm

That story brings to mind this inspiring video about planting free food on unused city land:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dhdAgLPMUQ&list=FLPcM1arvNR-WsKHEktndRkg&index=5&feature=plpp_video

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  GWN on 7/24/2012, 10:35 pm

I guess what I am trying to figure out is whether this is a situation where here is a couple of people brave enough to challenge a ridiculous law, OR
whether it is only in Quebec that Laws are so harsh to regulate what you have on your front yard.
I have heard it said by others here that Front yards HAD to be lawn.

What I am trying to figure out is whether this is a unique situation because it is a common situation that an un common couple have decided to go against OR is this a COMMON law that very few people try to act against.
Are there any places in the USA where people might be restricted to LAWN for the "plant of choice" for their front yard.

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  Chopper on 7/25/2012, 1:19 am

@GWN wrote:I guess what I am trying to figure out is whether this is a situation where here is a couple of people brave enough to challenge a ridiculous law, OR
whether it is only in Quebec that Laws are so harsh to regulate what you have on your front yard.
I have heard it said by others here that Front yards HAD to be lawn.

What I am trying to figure out is whether this is a unique situation because it is a common situation that an un common couple have decided to go against OR is this a COMMON law that very few people try to act against.
Are there any places in the USA where people might be restricted to LAWN for the "plant of choice" for their front yard.

Are you kidding? HOAs are the worst - lots of freedom loving people living in the most restrictive subculture there is. LOL. There is no end to the limitations they make. Most people do not care, but if the only south facing bit of land you have is in the front, then it matters. When I look at houses the first thing I consider is whether there is enough sun in the backyard - actually, I want a south facing backyard.

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  LittleGardener on 7/25/2012, 6:33 am

Yesterday I had posted my 120% support for this family's Gardening; yet that was before I saw Rooster's picture; & change is definitely needed:
1. See where the paved-curve drops down, for the next owner's Drive-way? - They planted right against the line. - Let me tell you, as much as I LOVE GARDENS, I'd have an anxiety-attack affraid every time backing the van outa the driveway, for fear I'd run over one of their plants, or worse planter. So, I for sure would have a little chat to get them to leave enough... room.
and
2. Maybe their 30% Grass-rule is from the curb back; and is there even a sidewalk hiding in there? - if not, & there's Elderly people strolling around their neighborhood, they can't expect them to walk on the street around it, because of the weirdo's driving now-a-days.
and
3. Notice they planted right up to the edge, everywhere! - What happens when the city needs to replace pipes underground? - since that work CANT wait 4 months til harvest is over, their Beautiful garden would be decimated.
and
4. How many children does this family have, to feed? - they've got enough to share with half the block, if not more. Need yet more room?, but absolutely can't in their backyard? they could install something on their windows maybe, or be more vertical. - also many HOA's have huge empty places. If they get enough Petition-signatures, & enough neighbors chime in, they could possibly get some land in those HUGE open spaces, so everyone could have a plot to garden if they wanted.
So, all in all, the fact that this family was granted until September to make changes, says that at least in Drummondsville, City-'authorities' still have a heart I love you ...

Would that this is the case all over. Because we all share this planet together. Anyway my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth.

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  Nonna.PapaVino on 7/25/2012, 10:56 am

Hmmm. Wonder if the Quebec couple could get the medical community involved, after all, with the weight loss and organic food, it is a health issue. Besides, seems to me the garden would be a doctor-recommended excercise area. Going to the elected idiots with doctor's written document showiing difference in weight, blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. might count for something.

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  GWN on 7/25/2012, 11:22 am

littlegardener
I would have to disagree about them growing enough for half the block.
I am attempting each year to get closer and closer to self sustainability and that does not just mean during the summer, but to grow enough that you can live on for the entire year.
(you have to read "animal, vegetable, miracle" by Barbara Kingsolver.) I have about a quarter of acre in garden and do not think we can live off this food for a year..... at least yet.
I believe that everyone should have the right to grow their own food, and that should take priority over cosmetics such as lawn.
I recently read a book called nothing to envy which is about North Korea and no one was allowed to grow their own foods (because with the communism the food was grown by the state) and when the state failed everyone starved, gradually the government became more lax on gardens.

Where I live there is an 8 foot area between the road and where my property starts, so essentially city owned property.
Well my neighbour has taken HIS 8 feet and sprayed it all with roundup (to keep it looking nice).... nice to see there are MUCH nicer ways to Clean up the neighbourhood

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  J_in_HamiltonON on 7/25/2012, 1:39 pm

Okay, I know this post has sort have been dragging on .. but it's also been quite interesting in the sense that here we are coming to some debate and disagreement, whereas most posts are straightforward advice and encouragment (which is really great btw).
Several have pointed out that a portion of the front yard is in fact city property and that potentially at anytime it could be dug up for access to buried untilities. Now, I've given this a lot of thought because this year I built a large bed on the side of my property (live on a corner lot) and as far as I know the bed is 100% on city property. Why did I choose to do it? What's to loose? I have this section of land which sits there brown all summer (bacause I won't water it) - and it's gets just about more sun then any other spot in my yard. I'm already on the hook for maintaining this parcel of land that I do not technically own. So if I'm going to have to maintain it, I might as well put it to use. Okay, so maybe next summer for some reason the city comes and destroys it because they need to replace a water main. Not likely. I mean, really, when was the last time they dug up your yard? Also, I think water gas and sewer typically run under the road or sidewalks but i might be wrong there
Also consider that many municipalities / cities have a number of ordinances that typically are not enforced until someone complains. Then they really have no choice. So it's important to know your neighbours. And also bribe them with your wonderful produce tongue .
Finally, there have been comments about the appearance in the winter. First, most of it will be covered in snow for serveral months, and in months like November and March everythong is sort of brown and muddy so how much worse will it actually be? This part of the discussion reminds me of the debate over wind turbines - some say they are ugly and destroy the scenery. I think they look great, just different (I'm only talking about looks here, not noise or anything else) - and they are making clean electricity at the same time!
THis also reminds me of the whole backyard chicken debate. Last night I was laying there in bed after midnight bothered by several dogs barking up a storm. everyone it seems has a dog or two, and all sort of other pets. Every trail and path and park (and often my front grass Evil or Very Mad ) has piles of dog all over. Yet I can't own a few hens because it will be "too noisy and too dirty"?
well, that's how I see it.

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  LittleGardener on 7/25/2012, 3:34 pm

@GWN wrote:littlegardener
I would have to disagree about them growing enough for half the block.
I am attempting each year to get closer and closer to self sustainability I have about a quarter of acre in garden and do not think we can live off this food for a year..... at least yet.
I believe that everyone should have the right to grow their own food, and that should take priority over cosmetics such as lawn.

Where I live there is an 8 foot area between the road and where my property starts, so essentially city owned property.
Well my neighbour has taken HIS 8 feet and sprayed it all with roundup (to keep it looking nice).... nice to see there are MUCH nicer ways to Clean up the neighbourhood
Hi GWN,
I've lived in, and surrounded by, Food-producing gardens most of my life, and therefore am in Total-agreement with your "I believe that everyone should have the right to grow their own food". - Never did I say otherwise.

However, for the 4 reasons I stated, perhaps Drummondville came up with a 30% Rule; this family could make that around the perimeter of their property, for compliance with the law.
But because they went completely OVERboard, what is the Law now for New-gardens in that city? - How much space? can other people/families have for THEIR RIGHT to grow their own food.





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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  GWN on 7/25/2012, 4:23 pm

Oh little gardener,
Sorry I was not disagreeing with any part of what you said except the part about how much a couple can eat a year, that is all. Smile

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  Tbites on 7/25/2012, 4:59 pm

@LittleGardener wrote:Yesterday I had posted my 120% support for this family's Gardening; yet that was before I saw Rooster's picture; & change is definitely needed:
1. See where the paved-curve drops down, for the next owner's Drive-way? - They planted right against the line. - Let me tell you, as much as I LOVE GARDENS, I'd have an anxiety-attack affraid every time backing the van outa the driveway, for fear I'd run over one of their plants, or worse planter. So, I for sure would have a little chat to get them to leave enough... room.
and
2. Maybe their 30% Grass-rule is from the curb back; and is there even a sidewalk hiding in there? - if not, & there's Elderly people strolling around their neighborhood, they can't expect them to walk on the street around it, because of the weirdo's driving now-a-days.
and
3. Notice they planted right up to the edge, everywhere! - What happens when the city needs to replace pipes underground? - since that work CANT wait 4 months til harvest is over, their Beautiful garden would be decimated.
and
4. How many children does this family have, to feed? - they've got enough to share with half the block, if not more. Need yet more room?, but absolutely can't in their backyard? they could install something on their windows maybe, or be more vertical. - also many HOA's have huge empty places. If they get enough Petition-signatures, & enough neighbors chime in, they could possibly get some land in those HUGE open spaces, so everyone could have a plot to garden if they wanted.
So, all in all, the fact that this family was granted until September to make changes, says that at least in Drummondsville, City-'authorities' still have a heart I love you ...

Would that this is the case all over. Because we all share this planet together. Anyway my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth.

A few details to clarify:

- The driveway you are referring to in Rooster's picture.... you must talking about the left hand side of the photo ? That's their driveway. Their neighbour's driveway is on the far right hand side and there's a strip of grass, albeit small, separating their garden from the neighbour's driveway. You can see it clearer on this top view (reversed)


You can see a little bit of it in this video as well.


They didn't cover up the sidewalks, this neighborhood HAS NO sidewalks.

The old by-laws (french text is here did NOT specify that the 30% had to be grass. It mentions, grass and/or bushes and/or vegetation. The city inspector confirmed this information before they started their project, I'll bet they now wish they'd had that conversation in writing instead of over the phone.

Call me an idealist, but this country is still a democracy and I do believe that if enough people are willing to stand up to get the new by-law reversed... they have the ability to do so.

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  CindiLou on 7/25/2012, 5:07 pm

"Now they're being ordered by town officials to remove most of their gardens (town code states that a vegetable garden can't occupy more than 30% of the area of a front yard) "

This is not 30% has to be yard....30% is all that is allowed for the garden. Way over that!

I had the misunderstanding that the city said 30% had to be yard. 30% can be garden. Big difference.

I bet they did have someone complain if there is that big of difference from the ordinance. Would not have to be a close neighbor. Could be down the street or around the block.

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  Tbites on 7/25/2012, 5:18 pm

@CindiLou wrote:"Now they're being ordered by town officials to remove most of their gardens (town code states that a vegetable garden can't occupy more than 30% of the area of a front yard) "

This is not 30% has to be yard....30% is all that is allowed for the garden. Way over that!

I had the misunderstanding that the city said 30% had to be yard. 30% can be garden. Big difference.

I bet they did have someone complain if there is that big of difference from the ordinance. Would not have to be a close neighbor. Could be down the street or around the block.

I have no idea where you're getting the bolded quote above... link ?

I provided a link to the city's by-laws which were in effect when they started and made their inquiry.

Art. 3.4.4 Refers to gardens and mentions no restrictions on it's maximum size.

Art. 7.7.3 Mentions minimum 30% green space development for front and side yard. Further mentions of green space development mention grass and/or bushes and/or vegetation.

From the
[url=http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Give+peas+chance+catches+attention/6978121/story.html]Montreal Gazette article[/url]

".....Whereas the city of Drummondville has passed a grass-only front-lawn bylaw recently, homeowners in the former St. Charles de Drummond have kept the right to plant vegetables and other greenery in their front yards, but only on 70 per cent of the space.

The remaining 30 per cent, the city portion, must be grass, says the bylaw.
"


ETA: I'm still searching for this new town code.... would like to read the exact details of the new law.




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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  southern gardener on 7/25/2012, 5:57 pm

a little off topic but WOW! what a garden! wonder what in the world they have in that soil? they have fall, summer, spring crops all growing perfectly! I''d love to have it in my yard. ON topic, if they bylaws say you can't have something, and you chose to do it anyway and "see what happens" you risk the consequences. That's why we live where we do with no HOA etc. Still LOVE the garden tho!

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  RoOsTeR on 7/25/2012, 6:26 pm

ON topic, if they bylaws say you can't have something, and you chose to do it anyway and "see what happens" you risk the consequences. That's why we live where we do with no HOA etc. Still LOVE the garden tho!

I agree 100%.

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  LittleGardener on 7/25/2012, 7:46 pm

@Tbites wrote:
The old by-laws (french text is here did NOT specify that the 30% had to be grass. It mentions, grass and/or bushes and/or vegetation. The city inspector confirmed this information before they started their project, I'll bet they now wish they'd had that conversation in writing instead of over the phone.

Call me an idealist, but this country is still a democracy and I do believe that if enough people are willing to stand up, to get the new by-law reversed... they have the ability to do so.
okay, Thank you for adding the Understanding re THEIR Driveway, & the 'no sidewalk'.

Also I too am an Idealist Smile more so than many. - However, just like what Monsanto has done to Organic farmers (bankrupting them, over UNintended supposed copyright infringement); it's not a far stretch to see little Neighborhood gardens, too disappear because someone says they can. --- Sure, people should stand UP for their un-a-lien-able rights, you bet. We all should. I pray & hope the people in Drummondville, who know how to preserve their Mind & Body for life, do get the Law to support their worthwhile efforts; Yes! - in writing.
Btw, lived in Montreal in 1976. Beautiful Smile people, just like everywhere...
.

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  CindiLou on 7/25/2012, 8:06 pm

@Tbites wrote:
I have no idea where you're getting the bolded quote above... link ?

My apologies. I should have included the link

Here

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  LittleGardener on 7/25/2012, 8:10 pm

@Nonna.PapaVino wrote:Hmmm. Wonder if the Quebec couple could get the medical community involved, after all, with the weight loss and organic food, it is a health issue. Besides, seems to me the garden would be a doctor-recommended excercise area. Going to the elected idiots with doctor's written document showing difference in weight, blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. might count for something.
Hi there,
The 'Medical-community', ordering & encouraging Gardening? Very Happy That would be the day
BUT it ain't likely, today. -
Just yesterday I responded to someone else here, about the fact that where I grew-up in Germany in our Organic Heirloom gardens, the alien idea/doctrine of disease, let alone 'chronic' was in our mountainous villages completely UNknown! - Barring accidents, we all lived healthy. This was our reality <- You share this in the USA now with most convinced, by THEIR model of the world that that must be a lie, or at least an exaggeration. ((As a poignant example, as a nurse left the hospital AMA last year; & what was the Order, verbatim: "Stop all Supplements (minerals & vitamins), and instead take oxycodone". Say what! like a narcotic painkiller is gonna now feed my body, is it??)) - So YES! You bet, let's prove to ourselves & the world that as God designed it Vibrant health can be reality cheers


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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  LittleGardener on 7/25/2012, 8:28 pm

@CindiLou wrote:
@Tbites wrote:
I have no idea where you're getting the bolded quote above... link ?
My apologies. I should have included the link
Here
oh dear Mad did they Change the title on the article since two days ago? or
is it a different link? - as this one says: "Thank goodness the authorities have busted these hardened front-yard garden criminals" - Um, that's the hardened attitudes one encounters working nigh 40 years in the medical community. - People need to get that changed, to Restore some semblance of sanity & Well-being. Really.


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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  LittleGardener on 7/25/2012, 9:41 pm

@GWN wrote:Oh little gardener,
Sorry I was not disagreeing with any part of what you said
except the part about how much a couple can eat a year, that is all. Smile
No worries. Everybody thinking the best Wink of each other, makes it cool Very Happy

The good to be gained from this is Avoid living in an HOA-situation.

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  GWN on 7/25/2012, 10:09 pm

The good to be gained from this is Avoid living in an HOA-situation.
gotta agree there.
I am sure it is difficult for people who have no choice but to live in a city for their livelihood.
However it is so sad that so many people have the lawn complex.... it is such a waste. Iwould bet that if all the lawns in North America were veggie gardens that the world poverty situation would be different.
Just from a very idealistic/nonrealistic point of view.

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Re: Illegal front yard garden

Post  GloriaG on 7/26/2012, 12:42 am

I'm sorry Gwn and Little Gardener, but I have to disagree with you about the HOA situation.

We chose to live in an HOA development long before we started our SFG. Like all things, living in an HOA has pros and cons - but in our case the pros won. However, that hasn't stopped me from having 235 square feet of garden plus the start of a small orchard. It just takes some creativity.

Even though our HOA rules state that vegetable gardens can't be visible to the street, mine is. It's just not "in your face". Instead, it's in the landscape with nice edging and grass all around. Most of my neighbors don't even realize that I have a vegetable garden, AND - it's quite productive (about 300 pounds of produce so far this year.)

No matter how lovely, if I had installed a SFG garden in the front yard like this couple, I would have been heavily fined.

It seems to me that HOA's, communities, townships and gardeners can all co-exist amiably if everyone is respectful of the rules.

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  LittleGardener on 7/26/2012, 2:14 am

@GloriaG wrote: 235 square feet of garden plus the start of a small orchard. It just takes some creativity.
Even though our HOA rules state that vegetable gardens can't be visible to the street, mine is. It's just not "in your face". Instead, it's in the landscape with nice edging and grass all around. Most of my neighbors don't even realize that I have a vegetable garden, AND - it's quite productive (about 300 pounds of produce so far this year.)

It seems to me that HOA's, communities, townships and gardeners can all co-exist amiably if everyone is respectful of the rules.
So glad it all is working out well for you Gloria. You could post pictures in this thread showcasing your creativity as another attractive alternative.


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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

Post  Nicola on 7/26/2012, 3:48 pm

I just got on here today to read about carrots!!
But being easily distracted, and caring about causes close to me, I read the HuffPost article the OP linked, then read about & signed the petition, invited 25 (the daily limit) of my Facebook friends to do the same, and shared the HP article to my Fb page, THEN read the first of the 4 pages of comments here (and clicked on the Michigan & Montreal links, in new tabs). huh?
I decided to forgo reading the rest for now, let you know my reactions, and maybe even go back to my original search.
I do hope they can get the law there changed for the better. I give up! :canada:

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Re: Illegal Front Yard Garden: Canadian Couple's Kitchen Garden Targeted By Authorities

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