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Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  ericam on 10/4/2012, 5:14 am

Hoggar, I love your tomato trellis too, what a pretty way to set it up!

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  Hoggar on 10/4/2012, 11:02 am

Thank you. Ill try to post some pictures before I take down the
vines. Weather man says we may get our first frost this weekend
and I have a ton of green tomatoes still on the vine I keep dead
heading them but they keep producing more starts.

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  ezzirah on 10/5/2012, 7:25 am

It is incredibly impressive! did you start them inside, or buy transplants? I don't know if you answered this up thread, but what variety are they? I love you

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  Hoggar on 10/5/2012, 10:31 am

Good morning Ezzirah,

Most of my Toms were seeded in early March but we had something came through and ate 4 or 5 plants. We started
off with 2 of each, Austins red pear, Yellow pear, Velvet Reds, Blondkopfchen, Green Sausage, Cherokee Purple, Nyagous and Amana Oranges, and a Snow White.

We lost a Green Sausage, Blondkopfchen. Cherokee Purple and
both Nyagous. We replaced them with an Early Girl, 2 Brandywines, a Beefsteak and I can't remember the last ones. these were purchased from our local seedling swap.
Our most impressive Toms came from the Cherokee Purple, which gave us several in the 2+ pound range.

Can you find the Quarter?





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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  quiltbea on 10/5/2012, 11:22 am

Are those Cherokee Purples? Mine were always much darker, especially the shoulders going into purple and definitely not beefsteaks.
Whatever they are, they are huge. Good going.
I'm still getting Velvet reds and Red Zebras here while all others are done.

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  ezzirah on 10/5/2012, 11:58 am

NICE! Good job on them!

I have yet to grow a plant that gives me a tomato I can eat! LOL. The plants get big, no tomatoes. So this year I am building a box for them and go that route and see what happens.

Huge tomatoes! NICE!

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  Turan on 10/5/2012, 12:14 pm

@quiltbea wrote:Are those Cherokee Purples? Mine were always much darker, especially the shoulders going into purple and definitely not beefsteaks.
Whatever they are, they are huge. Good going.

+1

I am just guessing here, but they look like Mortage Lifters, huge red tasty tomatoes from very indeterminate vines.

Here is a picture of a doubled Cherokee Purple on the vine. Fully ripe they are purple/red on the bottom and mahogany shoulders. Their vines were shorter than my other types and looked like a tall determinate. They ripened a big flush early and then trickled along.

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  camprn on 10/6/2012, 8:15 am

Turan that's a nice looking tomato! Mine were almost to that stage and then anthracnose struck, lost all the fruit sobbing

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  Turan on 10/6/2012, 3:40 pm

@camprn wrote:Turan that's a nice looking tomato! Mine were almost to that stage and then anthracnose struck, lost all the fruit sobbing

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  plantoid on 10/6/2012, 4:20 pm

I played the devil advocate and planted two 10 inch long beefsteak toms in MM filled tubs vertical in a two foot lokg by 1& 1/2 foot dia bottomless tube the other in an old poly five gallon water header tank of about 2foot x 16 inch x 16 inch .

The vertical one in the tube was in a hole about seven inches deep and the other in a four x four inch deep trench seven inches long inthe old tank .
The first set of leaves were snipped off both plants prior to planting.

Both were set up on a time clock controlled water feed that came on for 1 x 15 min per day at 05.30 hrs and given about 2 & 1/2 litres of water ( 4 pints ???? ) & fed one litre of a simple commercial liquid tomato feed once the first truss of tomatoes started to form and then got aanother dose every two weeks.

Results
Vertical plant has given over 9 pounds of tomatoes so far
Horizontal root has given 15 .
Both plants still have large green toms on them but as a frost is due tonight they may not get naturally ripened .
The horizontal rooted plant still has the most and bigger weight of toms still on it .

My adjudged conclusion is horizontal rooting wins hands down .. likely reason larger surface area for the greater numbes of feeder roots to get nourishment from & larger surface area with feeder roots close to the surface is warmer from the sun so warmer nutricious moisture present ... giving rise to easier quicker & voracious feeding .

When the plants are taken out i'll biung up some pictures and we will see what the comparisons are like .

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  mollyhespra on 10/6/2012, 5:32 pm

@camprn wrote:Turan that's a nice looking tomato! Mine were almost to that stage and then anthracnose struck, lost all the fruit sobbing
very sad BUMMER!!! very sad

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  quiltbea on 10/6/2012, 9:10 pm

Plantoid.....It looks like another vote for more root growth bringing more production.
Great tomatoes!

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  ezzirah on 10/7/2012, 7:47 am

Plantiod - that is fascinating! I am sold on the idea of horizontal planting.

Certainly will be trying that out next garden season! What a Face

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  Kelejan on 10/7/2012, 11:25 am

@ezzirah wrote:Plantiod - that is fascinating! I am sold on the idea of horizontal planting.

Certainly will be trying that out next garden season! What a Face

+1
Along with the much improved compost and vermicompost I am making, I am looking forward to a much more productive year in 2013.

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  Dunkinjean on 10/7/2012, 4:22 pm

Camprn,
Tks for the comparison of depth for your tomatoes.
I have always felt the prior garden books, info, etc, stating to plant just above the tomato pot didnt seem right. (Before Mel's) After I would plant my tomatoes and as they grew, the weight of the tomatoes/stems always seem to pull the tomato plant up from the ground abit.
Therefore, in the back of my mind I thought why can't we plant deeper! Until now it was only a thought, thanks for your time and great idea which I will be using starting next spring! It certainly makes sense. Very Happy

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  Kelejan on 10/8/2012, 2:33 am

@Dunkinjean wrote:Camprn,
Tks for the comparison of depth for your tomatoes.
I have always felt the prior garden books, info, etc, stating to plant just above the tomato pot didnt seem right. (Before Mel's) After I would plant my tomatoes and as they grew, the weight of the tomatoes/stems always seem to pull the tomato plant up from the ground abit.
Therefore, in the back of my mind I thought why can't we plant deeper! Until now it was only a thought, thanks for your time and great idea which I will be using starting next spring! It certainly makes sense. Very Happy

You can trust your instincts, DJ.

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  ezzirah on 10/8/2012, 6:31 am

@Kelejan wrote:
@ezzirah wrote:Plantiod - that is fascinating! I am sold on the idea of horizontal planting.

Certainly will be trying that out next garden season! What a Face

+1
Along with the much improved compost and vermicompost I am making, I am looking forward to a much more productive year in 2013.

I know! I grow nice big plants, but not near that many tomatoes! I am excited now to try it out.

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  Hoggar on 10/8/2012, 11:54 am

@quiltbea wrote:Are those Cherokee Purples? Mine were always much darker, especially the shoulders going into purple and definitely not beefsteaks.
Whatever they are, they are huge. Good going.
I'm still getting Velvet reds and Red Zebras here while all others are done.
According to the packaging they are Cherokee Purples, but none of my toms actually look like the picture on the package. Nothing as dark in color as I expected.
I have however, discovered a draw back to 10' tall toms...
How do you cover them to protect them from the frost? Shocked

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  quiltbea on 10/8/2012, 2:24 pm

Hoggar....You toss an old blanket over the tops of the plants but just for the night. Remove when temps rise so the weight of it doesn't stress the plant.

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  Hoggar on 10/8/2012, 3:10 pm

Will a sheet do or does it need to be a real blanket?

Thanks for the reply quiltbea.

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  quiltbea on 10/8/2012, 3:28 pm

Depends on the drop in temps. For only a few degrees, a sheet would work fine. Try to close the gaps as much as possible. Spring clothes pins work well. If 29*F and lower, I'd go for a blanket.

----or----Pull out the plants and hang them in a garage upside down and harvest the toms as they ripen. They may last for a few weeks this way.

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  Hoggar on 10/9/2012, 9:31 am

@quiltbea wrote:
----or----Pull out the plants and hang them in a garage upside down and harvest the toms as they ripen. They may last for a few weeks this way.

Thanks Bea!

We have done this for several years but we hang them in the Mudroom because the garage is not heated and things tend to freeze. we have had tomatoes hanging through January in the past. I just clip off the branches as they dry and let the toms continue to suck up the juices from the vines. We currently have approximately 30 to 50 lbs of toms on the vines and are amazed at the quantity this late in the season.

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  ezzirah on 10/10/2012, 5:56 am

Depends on how cold. If it is really, really cold I would go with plastic.

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  Turan on 10/20/2012, 7:45 pm

I just finished cleaning up the tomato growing parts of hte garden and so thought I would add my observations.

I had three different plots of tomatoes: Romas in a cold frame in a bed, Orphans in various pots, indeterminates in the greenhouse. All were planted deep in accordance to how big they were at transplanting time from 2-4" of stem was buried. The one exception was the Sweet Million that was planted sideways with 6" of stem buried (it was the biggest plant).

The Romas showed no additional root growth above the original root ball. maybe because they are determnate plants? Maybe because that particular bed has denser soil that I need to deal with. I got loads and loads of fruit from 4 plants but they were the last in the season to set and then ripened all at once.

The greenhouse IDs all showed good additional root growth except the one planted sideways. That one just has a dirty stem.... It is a Sweet Million cherry. Maybe this is particular of that variety? Maybe it is because that corner of the greenhouse is colder and it got nipped by an early frost which upset it greatily? These all produced well. 4 plants of ID probably gave double or triple what the Romas did, but over a couple months. They taste better than the Romas too but that is another thread.... Laughing

The orphans were planted in 2/3rd compost and 1/3rd sand in various black tree pots/buckets. They had a great deal of fine root growth above the stem and those roots filled the pots from top to bottom. They were planted much later than all the rest and had much less protection from the weather. They did not really make a lot of tomatoes except the one determinate golden cherry.

So did anyone else notice if Determinates do less rooting on the stems?

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Re: Tomatoes, shallow and deep planted experiment

Post  quiltbea on 10/21/2012, 12:21 pm

Turan.....I didn't notice the roots of my determinates so I can't help there. All mine went into pots. They usually all produce a full harvest at one time, the time depending on whether early or late varieties, like your Romas.
Another reason for planting the roots deep is so that you can water less often but deeper. The deeper roots can maintain the plant by reaching down for moisture a little further. From my understanding, if you don't have to water as often, there's less chance of blight and other moisture-borne diseases. To me, that's another great reason for deep planting.

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