Square Foot Gardening Forum

Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.


Search
 
 

Display results as :
 

 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» N&C Midwest: December 2016
by Scorpio Rising Today at 10:28 pm

» New England, December 2016
by Scorpio Rising Today at 10:19 pm

» Anyone out there tried crosne tubers?
by GardenGal Today at 8:35 pm

» Mid-South: December 2016
by yolos Today at 5:57 pm

» TrolleyDriver's Compost Thermometer
by trolleydriver Today at 5:21 pm

» CANADIAN REGION: What are you doing December 2016
by trolleydriver Today at 5:12 pm

» Tomato Tuesday 2016
by AtlantaMarie Today at 4:41 pm

» Happy Birthday!!
by PVPind Today at 12:13 pm

» Holy snow Batman!
by donnainzone5 Today at 12:13 pm

» Butterfly Junction
by countrynaturals Today at 11:44 am

» Garlic: Freeze, thaw, and heave
by camprn Today at 7:05 am

» Garbanzo (Chickpeas, Cicer arietinum) and Kidney Beans
by BeetlesPerSqFt Yesterday at 11:28 pm

» Northern California & Coastal Valleys - What are you doing this month?
by countrynaturals Yesterday at 10:43 pm

» What are you eating from your garden today?
by Scorpio Rising Yesterday at 9:43 pm

» Second Year SFG in Canada
by trolleydriver Yesterday at 9:41 pm

» CHALLENGE - Smallest possible footprint
by Kelejan Yesterday at 5:19 pm

» GF Collard Greens, Kale Recipes
by BeetlesPerSqFt Yesterday at 12:49 pm

» 2016 SFG in Brooks, Ga
by sanderson Yesterday at 11:48 am

» Bon fires on the Levee
by Cajun Cappy 12/6/2016, 12:17 pm

» Mid-Atl - Dec 2016 - Seed Catalog ?
by Scorpio Rising 12/5/2016, 10:24 pm

» Gardening in Central Pennsylvania
by Scorpio Rising 12/5/2016, 10:21 pm

» 1st Seed Catalog Arrived :)
by Scorpio Rising 12/5/2016, 10:15 pm

» Amaranth
by countrynaturals 12/5/2016, 12:06 pm

» Live and learn
by jimmy cee 12/5/2016, 9:08 am

» AtlantaMarie's Garden
by countrynaturals 12/4/2016, 2:04 pm

» Mychorrhizae Fungi
by audrey.jeanne.roberts 12/4/2016, 1:28 pm

» December 2016 Avatar: Show your Winter Season Colors!
by Scorpio Rising 12/3/2016, 11:17 pm

» SFG not giving the results I expected
by No_Such_Reality 12/3/2016, 7:21 pm

» New Member
by trolleydriver 12/3/2016, 4:14 pm

» First season SFG results / lessons learned
by countrynaturals 12/3/2016, 10:36 am

Google

Search SFG Forum

crop rotation

View previous topic View next topic Go down

crop rotation

Post  johnp on 1/5/2013, 8:01 am

I know that we are supposed to plant a new and different crop when we replant. I do however, have two (2x4) tomato boxes with the angled trellis on each side and three others (4x4) that are also just for tomatos. So what do others do from year to year? These boxes are three years old this spring.Thanks, I'm brand new at this forum.

johnp

Male Posts : 644
Join date : 2013-01-05
Age : 71
Location : high desert, Penrose CO

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  llama momma on 1/5/2013, 9:34 am

Johnp-

According to the book, Carrots love Tomatoes, it says, " unlike most other vegetables, toms prefer to grow in the same place year after year." (pg 26) Then it says this is fine unless you have a disease problem, in which case plant the toms in a different place.

In my opinion if you decide to call your extension service for their opinion please share your findings. The book was printed in 1998 and 1975 so I wonder if the current thinking has stayed the same re: prefers to grow in same place..


llama momma

Certified SFG Instructor

Female Posts : 4642
Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 59
Location : Central Ohio zone 6a

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  camprn on 1/5/2013, 10:15 am

I am moving my tomatoes next season because of blight. Not sure how much difference that will make but they have been in the same bed for 3 years.

____________________________

40 years a gardener and going strong with SFG.
http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-weeks-until-frost

There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance. ~ Henry David Thoreau

http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t1306-other-gardening-books

Outlander is outstanding!


camprn

Forum Moderator Certified SFG Teacher

Female Posts : 13984
Join date : 2010-03-06
Age : 54
Location : Keene, NH, USA ~ Zone 5a

View user profile http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-week

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  quiltbea on 1/5/2013, 11:42 am

I like to switch every year but my tall fence poles are up in the same place and those are the only places I can grow my tomatoes and my sugar snap peas.

I put up string trellis for the peas and just use tomato string from bottom to top for the tomatoes. So I switch those back and forth each year. That way the soil is as least getting a single rotation and the pea roots enrich the soil greatly.

If I want to have more tomatoes, I put the determinates in pots and leave the sprawling inderminates for stringing at the fence poles. When one has limitations, we have to find a way to make it work.

quiltbea

Female Posts : 4613
Join date : 2010-03-21
Age : 74
Location : Southwestern Maine Zone 5A

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  gwennifer on 1/5/2013, 1:13 pm

Don't know about tomatoes, but I had planted peas in the same place three times in a row and the third time they didn't perform well at all. It is difficult when the trellis needs to be on the north side of the box and I need to plant them along the trellis. Haven't figured out what to do about that besides either not planting them at all this year or changing out the Mel's mix instead.

gwennifer

Certified SFG Instructor

Female Posts : 1413
Join date : 2011-05-11
Location : Vancouver, WA

View user profile http://www.bluekeypm.com

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  Turan on 1/5/2013, 1:53 pm

I have often heard to rotate any of the solanacae (tomato, peppers, eggplant, potatoes) on a 3 year rotation and never with each other. Rotation is part of how to avoid trouble.

Here is a link to the UC Davis IPM information on this. They have a graph showing what to rotate with and how long in response to specific diseases etc. http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r783900611.html

With all that said.... tomatoes in some climates are a perennial, and some how that works. I have heard of gardeners planting tomatoes in the same place every year and being very careful to add lots of compost and it worked. I tried that and had rapid decline in yield and lots of yellowing leaves so now I use a 2 year rotation alternating tomatoes with basil, beans, cucumbers.

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Belgrade, MT
Click for weather forecast

Turan

Female Posts : 1999
Join date : 2012-03-29
Location : Gallatin Valley, Montana, Intermountain zone 4

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  Turan on 1/5/2013, 2:06 pm

@gwennifer wrote: It is difficult when the trellis needs to be on the north side of the box and I need to plant them along the trellis.

Have you watched the shade cast to the north on your beds? You are almost as far north as me. The sun is so high in the sky in the summer that my east west running beds cast no shade to the north. I can have my trellised peas/ beans etc any place in a bed with out it bothering other plantings.

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Belgrade, MT
Click for weather forecast

Turan

Female Posts : 1999
Join date : 2012-03-29
Location : Gallatin Valley, Montana, Intermountain zone 4

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  Kelejan on 1/5/2013, 3:53 pm

@gwennifer wrote:Don't know about tomatoes, but I had planted peas in the same place three times in a row and the third time they didn't perform well at all. It is difficult when the trellis needs to be on the north side of the box and I need to plant them along the trellis. Haven't figured out what to do about that besides either not planting them at all this year or changing out the Mel's mix instead.
I would suggest changing out the MM as it will only involve one row of squares then you can keep you trellis in the same place. I am going to that that this year with my pea and bean rows

Kelejan

Female Posts : 4499
Join date : 2011-04-24
Age : 81
Location : Castlegar, British Columbia

View user profile http://www.castlegarinkspot.ca

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  camprn on 1/5/2013, 4:56 pm

@Kelejan wrote:
@gwennifer wrote:Don't know about tomatoes, but I had planted peas in the same place three times in a row and the third time they didn't perform well at all. It is difficult when the trellis needs to be on the north side of the box and I need to plant them along the trellis. Haven't figured out what to do about that besides either not planting them at all this year or changing out the Mel's mix instead.
I would suggest changing out the MM as it will only involve one row of squares then you can keep you trellis in the same place. I am going to that that this year with my pea and bean rows
Kelejan, I am curious what your rational is for changing out the Mel's Mix.

I personally would add lots of fresh homemade compost, instead of the trowel full or two per square. I plant my peas and beans on the north side of my boxes. They continue to do well as long as I am very generous with adding compost between crops.

____________________________

40 years a gardener and going strong with SFG.
http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-weeks-until-frost

There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance. ~ Henry David Thoreau

http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t1306-other-gardening-books

Outlander is outstanding!


camprn

Forum Moderator Certified SFG Teacher

Female Posts : 13984
Join date : 2010-03-06
Age : 54
Location : Keene, NH, USA ~ Zone 5a

View user profile http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-week

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  gwennifer on 1/6/2013, 12:02 am

@Turan wrote:Have you watched the shade cast to the north on your beds? You are almost as far north as me. The sun is so high in the sky in the summer that my east west running beds cast no shade to the north. I can have my trellised peas/ beans etc any place in a bed with out it bothering other plantings.

Hmmmm..... Interesting. I do know the sun gets quite a bit more centered across my yard come high summer, but I grow the peas spring and fall. I know I had a problem with just my 6" carrot high rise casting shade into a corner of one square. I don't know. Gardening on such a small scale can be a teensy bit problematic sometimes.

Actually everyone, instead of changing out the Mel's Mix on one side, I should just take the grid off and stir the whole box up really well, adding a bucket or two of fresh compost. That would have the same effect as planting the peas somewhere else in the box. Didn't do that before since I always had something growing somewhere, but was planning on a fresh start this spring anyhow.

gwennifer

Certified SFG Instructor

Female Posts : 1413
Join date : 2011-05-11
Location : Vancouver, WA

View user profile http://www.bluekeypm.com

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  cheyannarach on 1/6/2013, 3:55 am

@gwennifer wrote:Don't know about tomatoes, but I had planted peas in the same place three times in a row and the third time they didn't perform well at all. It is difficult when the trellis needs to be on the north side of the box and I need to plant them along the trellis. Haven't figured out what to do about that besides either not planting them at all this year or changing out the Mel's mix instead.

Or just build another box Wink

cheyannarach

Female Posts : 2037
Join date : 2012-03-21
Location : Custer, SD

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  Kelejan on 1/6/2013, 10:05 am

@camprn wrote:
@Kelejan wrote:
@gwennifer wrote:Don't know about tomatoes, but I had planted peas in the same place three times in a row and the third time they didn't perform well at all. It is difficult when the trellis needs to be on the north side of the box and I need to plant them along the trellis. Haven't figured out what to do about that besides either not planting them at all this year or changing out the Mel's mix instead.
I would suggest changing out the MM as it will only involve one row of squares then you can keep you trellis in the same place. I am going to that that this year with my pea and bean rows
Kelejan, I am curious what your rational is for changing out the Mel's Mix.

I personally would add lots of fresh homemade compost, instead of the trowel full or two per square. I plant my peas and beans on the north side of my boxes. They continue to do well as long as I am very generous with adding compost between crops.
My rationale? I feel that as we are recommended to plant in a different spot each time, it is because any particular plant disease remains in that spot, so if you completely change the MM, then the diseases are no longer there so you can replant the same crop in the same place. Same thing as Gwennifer's quote about changing out the mix. Hope it makes sense.

Kelejan

Female Posts : 4499
Join date : 2011-04-24
Age : 81
Location : Castlegar, British Columbia

View user profile http://www.castlegarinkspot.ca

Back to top Go down

crop rotation

Post  johnp on 1/6/2013, 1:08 pm

Thank you all for the different answers. Since it seems that almost all my beds have eggplant or peppers in them that moving my tomatoes might not work. My beds have settled a lot so yesterday I got a load of three different composts and mixed with comp. manure. I bought 5 bags of vermiculite and two bricks of peat. and started mixing. Several (6) beds are not frozen so I moved the old mix to the sides and threw the new mix in with some additional manure and topped off the beds. Hope this works.
I just found this forum yesterday. I should have joined two years ago and maybe the squash bugs would not have won the war last summer. I will post some pictures as soon as my wife shows me how. We live in a small town 40 miles south of Colo. Springs Co.

johnp

Male Posts : 644
Join date : 2013-01-05
Age : 71
Location : high desert, Penrose CO

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  quiltbea on 1/6/2013, 1:55 pm

johnp....Welcome to the forum. I'm sure that being with our group would help you with some of your questions. Being in the desert, I can't help much since I'm in the north snow country.

As for squash bugs, I have to tell you that unless you cover them with light row cover early in their growth, the bugs will invade. Due to health reasons, I pretty much ignored my community garden rows last year. I had all I could do to keep my home beds going. I was amazed when I started to water a zucchini and right out of the center of that plant at least a hundred squash bugs came scuttling up the stalks and across the leaves. I hadn't covered them. That zucchini was a goner in a week.
So cover them against the bugs. Uncover them for pollinating which you can do by hand.
You can bet my row cover will be handy from the beginning of the season this year.

I stick several wire clothes hangers, formed into half circles, around my plants and hold the cover in place with spring clothes pins. Pour some soil on the ends touching the ground to keep bugs from going in underneath.

quiltbea

Female Posts : 4613
Join date : 2010-03-21
Age : 74
Location : Southwestern Maine Zone 5A

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  Turan on 1/6/2013, 2:00 pm

I group my solanacea in 3X8 bed and one side of the greenhouse. That way helps me with the rotations and with their similar needs for cold protection. I am fussing with my rotations right now. I think I will follow last year's solanacea bed with 3 sisters this year.

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Belgrade, MT
Click for weather forecast

Turan

Female Posts : 1999
Join date : 2012-03-29
Location : Gallatin Valley, Montana, Intermountain zone 4

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  JeanneRamick on 1/6/2013, 9:10 pm

@quiltbea wrote:As for squash bugs, I have to tell you that unless you cover them with light row cover early in their growth, the bugs will invade. I was amazed when I started to water a zucchini and right out of the center of that plant at least a hundred squash bugs came scuttling up the stalks and across the leaves. I hadn't covered them. That zucchini was a goner in a week.
So cover them against the bugs. Uncover them for pollinating which you can do by hand.
You can bet my row cover will be handy from the beginning of the season this year. I stick several wire clothes hangers, formed into half circles, around my plants and hold the cover in place with spring clothes pins. Pour some soil on the ends touching the ground to keep bugs from going in underneath.

My daughter loves zucchini, her's didn't do well last year. She lives in an old established neighborhood where every other house has a huge Rose of Sharon bush. When she put up one of those pheromone traps, she caught almost 2 POUNDS of those Japanese beetles on the first day. I think they'll eat anything, she had lots of 'lacey leaves' in her garden.

So about this cloth row cover for zucchini to keep out squash bugs ... do you keep that in place the whole season? My daughter had some pretty massive leaves on her zucchini.


JeanneRamick

Female Posts : 49
Join date : 2012-03-16
Age : 76
Location : West MI (5b)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  camprn on 1/6/2013, 9:13 pm

The Japanese beetle traps are sure to bring them into the yard. Best to let a neighbor with no vegetable garden to put up the traps. Or so I was told by an old time gardener. Wink

____________________________

40 years a gardener and going strong with SFG.
http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-weeks-until-frost

There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance. ~ Henry David Thoreau

http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t1306-other-gardening-books

Outlander is outstanding!


camprn

Forum Moderator Certified SFG Teacher

Female Posts : 13984
Join date : 2010-03-06
Age : 54
Location : Keene, NH, USA ~ Zone 5a

View user profile http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-week

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  JeanneRamick on 1/6/2013, 9:24 pm

@camprn wrote:The Japanese beetle traps are sure to bring them into the yard. Best to let a neighbor with no vegetable garden to put up the traps. Or so I was told by an old time gardener. Wink

I've heard that, too CampRN ... but there is one of those giant Rose of Sharon bushes right on the property line. The neighbor lady planted it when they moved into the house in the 1940's! So the beetles are already in her yard.

Sitting on my daughters deck, looking at that RoS ... you can see a SWARM of the beetles ... almost makes it look like the bush is vibrating.

She ended up setting two traps near that big bush, one in the back corner of their lot and one by the front porch (the bugs would almost dive-bomb you as you were going through the front door!)

The traps were a help because her plant leaves became a lot less lacey.

We looked into that milky spore to kill off the grubs .... but it's very expensive and with a hyper-infested neighborhood like hers, we weren't sure it would be worth it.

So ... should she put cloth covers over her zucchini for the full season?



JeanneRamick

Female Posts : 49
Join date : 2012-03-16
Age : 76
Location : West MI (5b)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  Pollinator on 1/6/2013, 11:59 pm

Assassin bugs have decimated the Japanese beetle population here over the last five or six years. Now I see only a couple each season on the crape myrtles. They used to devastate my grapes. My garden is overrun by assassin bugs and I will do nothing to hurt them.

Pollinator

Male Posts : 444
Join date : 2012-06-23
Location : Coastal SC

View user profile http://gardensouth.org

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  Cincinnati on 1/7/2013, 12:29 am

@johnp wrote:I know that we are supposed to plant a new and different crop when we replant. I do however, have two (2x4) tomato boxes with the angled trellis on each side and three others (4x4) that are also just for tomatoes. So what do others do from year to year? These boxes are three years old this spring.Thanks, I'm brand new at this forum.


I have a similar issue with trellises anchored behind a few of my boxes. Even thought I can sometimes get a different crop in between crops of tomatoes or cukes, I find it easy to rotate my soil (aka MM). I have just blended the soil in the entire box. However, by mixing all 16 squares together, I would only be redistributing a disease that is established in one square, among all the squares of that box.

I have also drug one 4x4 box away from the trellis, and moved another into its place.

I find it easier to remove the MM from one box into a wheelbarrow or trash bin, and adding MM from another box plus aged compost to create a "new soil".

Cincinnati

Posts : 182
Join date : 2011-06-26
Location : Alabama Gulf Coast

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  quiltbea on 1/7/2013, 11:43 am

Pollination and Row Cover.......I would cover mine from when they are transplanted or when they germinate, if directly sown. Leave on the cover until the female plants start to blossom. Usually the males grow first so I'd leave on the covers until the females grow. Then I would uncover during the daylight hours if you are going to allow insects to pollinate. Cover again at night against moths who lay eggs. That's if you let nature pollinate for you. Still risky with bugs finding your plants when uncovered.

You can use a soft artists's brush or look up pollinating by hand on utube. There are some good videos posted that can help you. If you hand pollinate, your crops are covered all the time until you move them aside to do the hand pollinating, thereby keeping your plants safer from the bugs.

In the case of many crops that don't blossom til the end of their lifetime (cabbage, broccoli, carrots) you can leave on the covers til you harvest.

quiltbea

Female Posts : 4613
Join date : 2010-03-21
Age : 74
Location : Southwestern Maine Zone 5A

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: crop rotation

Post  Sponsored content Today at 10:53 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum