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Sun vs. Heat

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Sun vs. Heat

Post  Hardcoir on 3/6/2013, 6:32 pm

No this isn't a question about an NBA game between Miami and Phoenix.

It's a Catch-22 situation with sunlight. Most vegetables love full sun, while a few do well in partial shade. Where we live, our summers are brutal. To make matters worse, the temperature on our block is always 5-7 degrees warmer than the city during summer days. Weather Underground-endorsed gauges prove it.

When it is 95 in the city, it is 100-102 here. Last year's extreme heat wave moved our thermometer to 116 degrees one afternoon. On a typical summer day in full sun when it is 100 degrees, the temperature can top 135 and our patio tops 150 degrees (160 in our Brinkman BBQ, almost high enough to barbecue brisket).

Does anybody have any idea at which point the full sun with oppressive heat loses out to partial shade and 35-50 degrees less heat?

For instance, would a bell pepper plant do better in 6 hours of sun with 95 degree heat than with 12 hours of sun with 135 degree heat?

I know with lettuce, parsley, and like plants that they must be given protection, but what about the full sun crops? Are there any botanical scientists out there with a computer program that shows a linear line that can be followed to determine when to provide protective shade and when not to?

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  JackieB999 on 3/6/2013, 7:12 pm

@Hardcoir wrote:For instance, would a bell pepper plant do better in 6 hours of sun with 95 degree heat than with 12 hours of sun with 135 degree heat?

I know with lettuce, parsley, and like plants that they must be given protection, but what about the full sun crops? Are there any botanical scientists out there with a computer program that shows a linear line that can be followed to determine when to provide protective shade and when not to?

I'm not a botanical scientist, lol, but I think 6 hours is sufficient. If your plants are showing signs of being too hot, then by all means, provide some shade for those little guys!

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  quiltbea on 3/6/2013, 8:14 pm

Many plants just stop growing when the temps rise above 90F, even tomatoes. When that happens, I would try to provide lots of shade.

In parts of Florida and Texas, I understand that many gardens in July and August just aren't producing a thing. Too hot. So its best to plan your garden so the harvest comes in BEFORE the extreme heat of your particular area.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  Muckmuck on 3/6/2013, 8:40 pm

I shade my tomatoes and peppers but it doesn't do much good, they both give up when the highs break 110 and the lows are 90. I have found that for tomatoes cutting them back when the heat stymies them usually results in a burst of new growth in mid September giving me a second fall crop.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  walshevak on 3/6/2013, 10:01 pm

The tomatos that were in the late afternoon shade survived better last summer than the ones in full sun. But eventually all stopped setting fruit until temps dropped. The big difference is that the shaded tomatos made a comeback and the sunny ones didn't.

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Same experience here

Post  Hardcoir on 3/7/2013, 12:14 pm

I won't say I am happy to hear that others share my angst with the miserable heat, but at least I know that the lack of harvest in July has been something I actually did not have a hand in.

We have ways of providing shade, so maybe I will give it a try.

Has anybody ever used ice cubes in your garden as a watering and cooling technique, and would it help any? Would this affect the plants in 100-degree weather without causing harm?

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  Hoggar on 3/7/2013, 12:47 pm

I was going to try misters last year but we didn't get toasty enough to worry about it so I never bought the parts. I don't think ice would do any good its not the roots that need cooling its the plant its self that suffers from the heat so shade and a cool breeze would probably be more useful. I have shade cloth and window screen I use to shade my cool weather crops to get a bit more mileage out of them.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  CapeCoddess on 3/7/2013, 1:30 pm

I used burlap over my tomatoes last summer when we were having a heat wave for a couple weeks and they stopped growing. They received the cooler morning sun, shown in this photo, and were protected for the rest of the day.


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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  H_TX_2 on 3/7/2013, 1:45 pm

You could say that not all sun is equal. The southern sun is more direct and more harsh while the yankee sun is more gentle on living things. Down here we don't need as many hours of sun as someone further north does. If possibly give your plants sun early in the day while temps are cooler and protect them from midday and/or late afternoon sun. In some climates you just can't garden very successfully during July and August. I had to change my thinking my first year of gardening.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  has55 on 6/23/2016, 11:44 am

@H_TX_2 wrote:You could say that not all sun is equal. The southern sun is more direct and more harsh while the yankee sun is more gentle on living things. Down here we don't need as many hours of sun as someone further north does. If possibly give your plants sun early in the day while temps are cooler and protect them from midday and/or late afternoon sun. In some climates you just can't garden very successfully during July and August. I had to change my thinking my first year of gardening.
If you're still around, What did you do differently with your planting schedule?

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  countrynaturals on 6/23/2016, 1:17 pm

I have a theory that young plants tolerate the heat and sun better than older ones. I'm testing that theory right now by starting a 2nd crop of toms from seed. They should be ready to plant outside by the middle of July. It won't be a perfect test, since these are not the same varieties I planted earlier, but the results should still be informative. 

I do know that peppers can get sunburned, and, like others have said, most things go dormant when it hits triple-digits and can come back for a 2nd season when things cool off a little.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  has55 on 6/23/2016, 1:22 pm

@countrynaturals wrote:I have a theory that young plants tolerate the heat and sun better than older ones. I'm testing that theory right now by starting a 2nd crop of toms from seed. They should be ready to plant outside by the middle of July. It won't be a perfect test, since these are not the same varieties I planted earlier, but the results should still be informative. 

I do know that peppers can get sunburned, and, like others have said, most things go dormant when it hits triple-digits and can come back for a 2nd season when things cool off a little.
that's good to know. I need to get some shade cloth up.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  sanderson on 6/24/2016, 9:56 am

Has, I know that the summer sun at my latitude can be brutal, burning leaves and fruits, wilting the plants everyday. Shade cloth, especially from noon on (west) really, really helps. Can't do anything about the temperature, except with shade cloth, everything is cooler to the touch than out in the sun. Plus, adding light-colored mulch keeps the soil cooler and moister.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  has55 on 6/24/2016, 3:14 pm

@sanderson wrote:Has,  I know that the summer sun at my latitude can be brutal, burning leaves and fruits, wilting the plants everyday.  Shade cloth, especially from noon on (west) really, really helps.  Can't do anything about the temperature, except with shade cloth, everything is cooler to the touch than out in the sun.  Plus, adding light-colored mulch keeps the soil cooler and moister.
thanks

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  countrynaturals on 6/24/2016, 5:01 pm

@countrynaturals wrote:I have a theory that young plants tolerate the heat and sun better than older ones. 
I now have a good test for this theory. In January, I planted dwarf kale in Jiffy Pellets, then ignored them until my new sfg was finished. They were in pretty bad shape when I put them into the garden, but we had a week or so of below average temps and now those babies are thriving. 

Today, I dropped some of the same type of seed directly into the same beds. They should be fully developed by the time we get to the worst of our summer heat. I have them marked, so I'll be able to tell if they do any better than their older cousins.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  Scorpio Rising on 6/24/2016, 10:31 pm

@countrynaturals wrote:
@countrynaturals wrote:I have a theory that young plants tolerate the heat and sun better than older ones. 
I now have a good test for this theory. In January, I planted dwarf kale in Jiffy Pellets, then ignored them until my new sfg was finished. They were in pretty bad shape when I put them into the garden, but we had a week or so of below average temps and now those babies are thriving. 

Today, I dropped some of the same type of seed directly into the same beds. They should be fully developed by the time we get to the worst of our summer heat. I have them marked, so I'll be able to tell if they do any better than their older cousins.

I LOVE experiments! cheers

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  Pollinator on 6/25/2016, 12:18 am

I have to laugh, when someone refers to tomatoes as "heat loving," because they've self identified as a Yankee. In the deep South, June, July and August are the time to forget about the tomatoes, and focus on plants that truly do love heat, like okra, eggplant, sweet potatoes, and Dixie Lee peas.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  countrynaturals on 6/25/2016, 10:16 am

@Pollinator wrote:I have to laugh, when someone refers to tomatoes as "heat loving," because they've self identified as a Yankee. In the deep South, June, July and August are the time to forget about the tomatoes, and focus on plants that truly do love heat, like okra, eggplant, sweet potatoes, and Dixie Lee peas.
Next year I'll plan better and plant smaller varieties to grow in the house for the summer months. My goal is to harvest veggies year-round, but I have a LOT to learn. geek

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  yolos on 6/25/2016, 6:38 pm

@Pollinator wrote:I have to laugh, when someone refers to tomatoes as "heat loving," because they've self identified as a Yankee. In the deep South, June, July and August are the time to forget about the tomatoes, and focus on plants that truly do love heat, like okra, eggplant, sweet potatoes, and Dixie Lee peas.
Yep, I have Lady CowPeas, White Acre CowPeas and Pinkeye Purple Hull cowpeas growing in my garden.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  No_Such_Reality on 6/26/2016, 7:44 pm

@sanderson wrote:Has,  I know that the summer sun at my latitude can be brutal, burning leaves and fruits, wilting the plants everyday.  Shade cloth, especially from noon on (west) really, really helps.  Can't do anything about the temperature, except with shade cloth, everything is cooler to the touch than out in the sun.  Plus, adding light-colored mulch keeps the soil cooler and moister.

Yep, last weekend during the brutal heat wave, some do-do decided it was time to transplant the extra sweet potato slips I had in the pot that recently had the potatoes die out in.  Late in the evening, I plant, water, and forgot.

Next day was Sunday, 108F, blazing sun from 05:30 to 20:30 hours.

What happened to the sweet potato slips?

There's the twig of the stem.  There's the leaves, well, there's what were the leaves, they now have the consistency of a well done batch of kale chips.

Surprisingly, it did not kill the sweet potato. They're sending new leaves off the stems.  

Well, until today anyway.  and tomorrow, and Tuesday and Wednesday.  We'll see if the sun can finish the job.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  sanderson on 6/27/2016, 2:53 am

Do-do, Sweet potato leaves are edible so now you have real SP chips! I hope your SP revive. Absolutely miserable today with the heat and the air quality in the red. Somewhere, there was a fire to add to the misery. I hope to get up with the sun and get some of the new Agribon-30 I just received in the mail.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  StrongAsMeat on 7/23/2016, 6:57 am

I harvested a bowl of beans, cherry tomatoes, a few zucchini and some peas twice now, and it looks like that's all I'll be getting. I've been feeding the tomatoes food and they seem to be the only ones doing good, everything else has withered, gone to seed or just stopped producing. I'll try feeding everything tomato food, but I think the damage from this crazy heat is already done. 

*My spaghetti squash isn't doing too bad even though the leaves are mostly withered. They're a good size but still green.

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  reynajrainwater on 7/24/2016, 12:19 am

My plants are still alive but everything except the eggplants have stopped producing. Shade cloth went up a month ago and will stay up until September. 



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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  countrynaturals on 7/24/2016, 11:42 am

We finished installing our shade cloth day before yesterday. I have 3 little tomato plants in containers that I bring inside during the day and will continue that practice until about the middle of September, when temps should drop below 95. I'm hoping that experiment will help. Cukes and peppers are still producing. Melons, beans, spaghetti squash, and zukes are doing nothing. Sad

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Re: Sun vs. Heat

Post  countrynaturals on 8/17/2016, 12:45 pm

The verdict is in and "sun" is definitely the killer. The only plants I have still producing are under 75% shade. Anything getting even an hour of our brutal direct sun is struggling to stay alive and not producing any blossoms or fruit. The only exceptions are banana squash and delicata squash, but even those get minimum exposure to our sun. The test case turned out to be Armenian cucumbers. I planted them along 12' of my "salad bar" garden. The first 6' get 2-3 hours of sun. They aren't doing anything. The last 6' are under shade cloth and producing beautifully (3 on the vine and I just picked one on Monday). BTW, it was 112 here, yesterday. Heat just doesn't seem to matter. Shocked

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