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Watering with a hose

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Bt for containers of water

Post  point on 5/17/2013, 1:29 am

@Windmere wrote:Hi point,

I have ten Earth Boxes. I don't know what "BT dunks" means. I am wondering if this is something a need to add.

Windmere, you may not need this at all. However, I live one town away from the town whose weekly paper is called "The Mosquito". Our property abuts a wetlands, and we pitch a shade house with screening in the summer so we can avoid getting stung while enjoying the yard. Mosquitoes transmit Eastern equine encephalitis, which the media constantly warn about. So for me, who must taste like dessert to the 'squitoes, it is very important to use Bt as a preventive insecticide.

Bt is shorthand for a nontoxic (to humans) bacillus that is used to kill pests like mosquitoes in the larval stage, where they breed, such as standing water (see this page).

The specific mosquito product comes in a doughnut shape that one drops into a pond or in granules one sprinkles into, say, a tire that's holding water or an Earth Box reservoir.

I didn't mean to hijack the topic, and I'm glad to know that Bt granules may cover water better than the dunks.

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Thanks

Post  Windmere on 5/17/2013, 7:58 am

Thanks for your response point. I also read the information in the link you posted. All very interesting!

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  Unmutual on 5/17/2013, 3:40 pm

@HOUSTONMOM wrote:
Thank you so much for the mulch and filter information.I like the irrigation system but unfortunately I can't dig in my yard because I have my neighbors phone and cable wires running though out my yard along with electric and gas pipes.Very thankful SFG is above ground .Thank you all learned so much from all of you.

My drip irrigation is all above ground, except where it passes under the worm bin.

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Chlorinated tap water?

Post  boffer on 8/6/2013, 6:55 pm

I wanted to respond to WriterCPA's post in another thread, per camp's subtle suggestion to quit hi-jacking the thread! Razz

It's my understanding that the problem of chlorinated municipal water is not the harm to plants, but the damage to micro-organisms in the growing medium.  If the chlorine is sufficient to kill the bad bacteria, it will also kill the good bacteria.

It is frequently suggested in compost tea tutorials that if chlorinated water is used, the tea will be useless for its intended purpose, and that, as WriterCPA suggested, letting the water stand in an open container for 24 hours before use will allow the chlorine to dissipate.

Perfectly good tap water can be spoiled by running it through deteriorating lead pipes in a home, so check the type and age of your water system and think about replacing lead pipes with copper or PVC.
I thought the Romans were the last to use lead pipes for potable water?  If you were thinking about galvanized pipes, maybe Sanderson has some knowledge to offer.  Galvie pipes will accumulate a lot of mineral deposits on the inside, but I don't know about lead.  It wasn't too long ago that they used lead solder when sweating copper joints.  I don't know if there was a measurable health issue due to that, but the code has been changed to require non-lead solder.

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  plantoid on 8/6/2013, 8:20 pm

We still have lead pipe work in some of the older pre 1960's domestic supply's in the UK .
It usually  runs from from the rising main into properties ..it sends folk mad & wrecks our teeth & makes us go bald .. does it show ??? Wink 

 Those property owners with lead pipe work   are advised to run at least three gallons of water off first thing in the morning to dilute/ flush out  any overnight concentrations in the localised pipework and to apply for financial hep from the state to replace the lead pipe work with copper or plastic stuff. ( which is also toxic to a degree )

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Lead in Plumbing

Post  sanderson on 8/6/2013, 9:10 pm

I'm writing this as a response to a question in another topic, but doing it as a new Topic with a separate Title.

The word plumbing comes from the Latin word for lead, plumbum.  Lead is a heavy, malleable, non-corrosive metal that is used, or was used, in many metal products, i.e. lead bullets, x-ray lead aprons at dentist office, old keys, computer monitors, galvanized pipes, metal solder, axial parts of primitive stone grain grinding, well pumps, chili powder in Mexico (suppose to impart a sweet taste but as curious as I am, I never tried the taste!) Ayavedic medicine (I know I mis-spelled it) in some India cultures, some Asian medicines, lead-based paint and clear coatings, marine paints and finishes, brass, galvanized shed siding, news print keys, pottery glazes, etc.  The list goes on.

Lead and lead solder was banned in 1986 for use in drinking water plumbing.  When I worked, I tested paint, soil, dust and drinking water in the homes of lead poisoned children.  (Plus collected other "non-housing" items that the parent thought might be the source)  To test for lead in piped water, first collect a sample of the standing water in the pipes by collecting the first discharge.  Collect the second sample after the water has been running for at least one minute.  With galvanized pipes, often, the first draw was contaminated and the second was below detection level.  The more corrosive the source of water, the more lead leached out.  I got lead and copper poisoning once from galv. pipes, but I will save that for the bottom, maybe.

Just because something is banned doesn't mean that everyone is on board.  I remember that in one new neighborhood, the contracted plumber thought is was okay to use <50% lead solder.  The public water delivered to the subdivision was clean.  It was only after the water entered the house system that it was contaminated with lead.  Dummy.  Whole house or point-of-use filters were needed at any faucet used for drinking.

Now my story.  I used to frequent a fast food business for my morning break and to buy a large soda.  For some short time, I felt fine if I went inside for the soda but not as well when I went through the drive-though window.  One morning, I was probably the first soda customer at the window, and within 5 minutes I was vomiting in the bushes outside the health department.  I took the soda directly to the health department lab to have it tested under "chemical food poisoning."  Turns out it was highly contaminated with lead and copper, after it had sat around the lab with the ice melting and diluting it.  The copper combined with the naturally occurring sulfate in the water to make copper sulfate, a common emetic (induce vomiting).

I did the investigation (who else?) and found that the carbonation systems were different for the window service (old system) and the inside soda bar.  The check valve between the pressurized carbon system and the water supply (galvanized pipes) had failed and the carbonation leached metals out of the pipe into the water.  I got the first plug of contaminated water for my soda.  The system was changed out the next day.  In fact, the huge company went through their chain and got rid of the that line of older machines.

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  sanderson on 8/6/2013, 9:21 pm

@plantoid wrote:We still have lead pipe work in some of the older pre 1960's domestic supply's in the UK .

Those property owners with lead pipe work are advised to run at least three gallons of water off first thing in the morning to dilute/ flush out any overnight concentrations in the localized pipework

+1

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  RoOsTeR on 8/6/2013, 9:41 pm

Sanderson, to keep everything together, I combined this topic so it's easier to reference.

I guess for arguments sake, it would be more fitting to know how lead in a water supply would or does affect our gardens. Wink 

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MOD Forum: Lead in pipes

Post  sanderson on 8/7/2013, 12:03 am

Darn.  And I really thought about it, to keep it in the hose thread or just make a lead pipe topic.  I will learn.

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  boffer on 8/7/2013, 12:25 am

Sanderson, I'm sure you'll be a faster study than I. I had made my above post a new thread too, and camp moved it here! darn funny 

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  camprn on 8/7/2013, 6:34 am

This is not my handiwork..... but a good conversation nonetheless. Fascinating about the soda discovery... and lack of compliance from the plumbers.

I echo Rooster's query, is lead easily taken up by plants? I would assume yes.

I use a municipal water supply and most things do fine. The plants do seem better after a storm, and I have heard that is because sometimes storms can fix nitrogen...... some folks swear it's true and there is science behind the claim.

https://www.pick-a-pepper.com/readarticle.php?itemid=100

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  RoOsTeR on 8/7/2013, 6:47 am

I combined the threads as the topic seemed the same as the previous. 
Filthy plumbers.

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  camprn on 8/7/2013, 6:52 am

@RoOsTeR wrote:I combined the threads as the topic seemed the same as the previous. 
Filthy plumbers.
darn funny  Someone's gotta do it!okay 

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  sanderson on 8/7/2013, 2:29 pm

Camp stated:  I echo Rooster's query, is lead easily taken up by plants? I would assume yes.
___
I posted this on another topic:

Public Lab results I witnessed showed lead in all of the produce from a garden grown in lead-contaminated soil.  Also the chicken eggs from the chickens raised on the property.

There is no "safe" level of lead.  True, adults can daily excrete extremely low levels of lead, but not children under 6.  They are in a growing mode, absorbing every nutrient like Calcium, Potassium, and Iron, and lead is absorbed right along with these.  (long explanation)  Lead makes lousy bones!

I guess as a former public health lead inspector I have to put in my thoughts and caution against using xx.  I am propelled to caution because of what I saw first hand with the lead poisoned kids for 11 years.  I am truly sorry for this downer reply.Sad

Post Note:  the soil in the garden was severely contaminated from lead in car batteries.  Different plants took up different amounts of lead, either in the fruits (corn, tomatoes, peppers, etc) or the plant stalk (corn), leaves (kale), or roots (carrot).

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  No_Such_Reality on 8/7/2013, 5:30 pm

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/ptlk/1548.html

Probably not worrying about the Chlorine.

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  murarrie25 on 8/7/2013, 6:32 pm

Pollution can affect the intelligence of children lead contamination can lower IQ .

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  CapeCoddess on 8/7/2013, 6:34 pm

@No_Such_Reality wrote:http://www.ext.colostate.edu/ptlk/1548.html

Probably not worrying about the Chlorine.

That's exactly what I needed today, NSR! Thanks for posting.

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  sanderson on 8/7/2013, 8:56 pm

murarrie25

Yes, lead affects the IQ, all of the nervous system.  Plus organs, bone and teeth, fertility, impotence.  Don't think there are any more body parts left.  Bout sums it up.

Any level of lead poisoning for a child under six has permanent affects, even if they aren't immediately obvious.

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  camprn on 8/7/2013, 9:35 pm

@sanderson wrote:murarrie25

Yes, lead affects the IQ, all of the nervous system.  Plus organs, bone and teeth, fertility, impotence.  Don't think there are any more body parts left.  Bout sums it up.

Any level of lead poisoning for a child under six has permanent affects, even if they aren't immediately obvious.
+1, and lead does kill. But most of us don't have that problem with water from the hose. Thankfully.

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  WriterCPA on 8/8/2013, 4:29 am

@Sanderson wrote:I guess as a former public health lead inspector I have to put in my thoughts and caution against using xx.  I am propelled to caution because of what I saw first hand with the lead poisoned kids for 11 years.  I am truly sorry for this downer reply.Sad

You're not a downer Sanderson, you're a professional.  And your points about lead  in soil are very important to consider when siting an SFG in any area that previously had industrial activity, a big old Victorian house or inner city apartments filled with lead paint that were torn down, or an area adjacent to a roadway (think leaded gasoline fumes.)  I read research on lead levels along highways when I was in planning school.* So let me go one step further on what Sanderson is saying.

It is important to know the history of the soil where you are planting.  Stories abound of former landfills, factories, etc. that are now nice suburban homes. On polite days in environmental protection, we call these reused sites, "Brownfields."  EPA published "Brownfields and Urban Agriculture" to help people growing food in cities, particularly when reusing blighted areas as community gardens. www.epa.gov/brownfields/urbanag/pdf/bf_urban_ag.pdf

Don't assume that pricey real estate brings safety.  The ritzy Harbor East area in Baltimore is sitting over capped chromium tailings. The residential units that I am aware of down there are all condos. It's deemed safe for these residential uses.  This downtown water front property was not redeveloped with townhouses, as far as I know, so there is much less chance of a home gardener breaking the cap, but it definitely is not somewhere I want to plant food.

And this is not just an "urban" problem.  You never know when a prior property owner in the '50s or '60s "liked to work on cars" in his backyard and was not too careful (who was back then?) about where he dumped oil, battery acid, or leaded paint. For that matter, you may inherit a garden (or former farm) from someone who made liberal use of pesticides or other chemicals that are persistent in the environment.

The EPA document gives some guidance on having soils tested, but this is not an inexpensive undertaking.  When in doubt about your soil's pedigree, elevate the boxes and use Mel Mix that does not contain soil or compost from the questionable area.  

*Master of Urban Planning, New York University, and published author on Brownfield redevelopment.

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  RoOsTeR on 8/8/2013, 7:42 am

I think for arguments sake, it should be assumed that members here are using the SFG method and Mel's Mix. One of the beauties of the method is, we aren't using native soil.
There are previous threads here on the forum about purchasing and using filters that attach to a hose or spigot.
As previously mentioned, Mel also recommends filling buckets with water and allowing to sit out in the sun for garden use.

@No_Such_Reality wrote:http://www.ext.colostate.edu/ptlk/1548.html

Probably not worrying about the Chlorine.

Thanks for the great link NSR   Wink

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Re: Watering with a hose

Post  CapeCoddess on 8/8/2013, 11:45 am

@RoOsTeR wrote:As previously mentioned, Mel also recommends filling buckets with water and allowing to sit out in the sun for garden use.

@No_Such_Reality wrote:http://www.ext.colostate.edu/ptlk/1548.html

Probably not worrying about the Chlorine.
 I've always wondered how long the water should sit in the buckets in order to allow the chlorine to evaporate, but reading NSRs link helped me to realize that it doesn't matter. Now I'll just wait til they are sun warmed & not concern myself with chlorine....sunny 

*looking around* duh uh...sun?  What sun?

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Re: Watering with a hose

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