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An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

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An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  rabbithutch on 2/12/2014, 5:03 pm

I checked the area that I plan to put my kitchen door TT herb garden today.  I drew up what I plan to build, but I have some 24" hardware cloth that I want to use up; so I left the inside dimension 21-1/2" (instead of 24") by 84" (7 feet).  I also plan to make my ground level beds using 8' 2x8 which means I'll squeeze the square foot paradigm a bit there, too.

Will the loss of an inch and a quarter in each square make any difference at all to the way the SFG grows?
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  H_TX_2 on 2/12/2014, 5:27 pm

I don't think it will have much a an effect on the plants. You don't have to make all of your squares smaller. I'm guessing your bed will only be two rows deep. You could make your back rows one foot deep since they will most likely be holding your tomatoes. Then make the front row a little less than 12 inches deep. Plant your smaller things in the front row. Even if you simply divide everything evenly and all your squares are a bit smaller you shouldn't have a problem.
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  Goosegirl on 2/12/2014, 6:00 pm

All of my squares a just a bit smaller - the plants don't grow with rulers, so none of mine for the last 3 years have figured out that I am cramping them just a bit!

GG
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  plantoid on 2/12/2014, 8:23 pm

@rabbithutch wrote:I checked the area that I plan to put my kitchen door TT herb garden today.  I drew up what I plan to build, but I have some 24" hardware cloth that I want to use up; so I left the inside dimension 21-1/2" (instead of 24") by 84" (7 feet).  I also plan to make my ground level beds using 8' 2x8 which means I'll squeeze the square foot paradigm a bit there, too.

Will the loss of an inch and a quarter in each square make any difference at all to the way the SFG grows?

No such thing as a stupid question RH , it's an intelligent one to my mind .

Like has been said for the majority of crops it wont matter .. ....... you'll eventually discover the ones where it does.  Laughing
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Planting Plan for My TT Herb Garden

Post  rabbithutch on 2/12/2014, 8:41 pm

Thanks for the responses.  I kinda figured that the loss of such a small volume would no make much, if any, difference.

I checked FAQ but didn't find instructions for posting pics.  Do I have to put graphics on Photobucket and include the URL markup?  Can someone please point me to the how-to for pics?

Nevermind!  I found the video!!!!!

Oops!  Hit the 7 day rule.  I'll come back to this post when the proper time has expired and post the pic. 


Here is a drawing I did in SketchUp and exported to the .jpg format.  It shows the way my kitchen door TT herb garden will be built and the herbs I plan to plant in it.  You can see that showed the general direction that morning sun will come from.  By mid afternoon, the darker shaded squares will be shaded by the house and the others will be shaded by evening.  I think this will be enough sun for herbs, tho. 



I would really appreciate any critique and all suggestions for anything that needs improvement.

My planned ground level beds will be in the back yard.  If I can do it, I will have four ~4'x4' beds arranged in a square.  That is where I will plant the majority of my garden.  Onions, lettuce, carrots, corn, etc. - all yet to be determined.  When I'm closer to planting on these beds, I'll post another planting plan.


TIA


Last edited by rabbithutch on 2/12/2014, 9:07 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Add pic and correct earlier text.)
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Now That I Can Post Pics

Post  rabbithutch on 2/14/2014, 5:55 pm

Here is a drawing I did in Sketchup for the TT Kitchen Door Herb Garden.  I bought the lumber and have laid out all the cuts.  Tomorrow I hope to get it cut to size and assembled.



And here is what I plan to put in it:


You can see that I showed the general direction that morning sun will come from.  By mid afternoon, the darker shaded squares will be shaded by the house and the others will be shaded by evening.  I think this will be enough sun for herbs, tho. 

I would really appreciate any critique and all suggestions for anything that needs improvement.


Last edited by rabbithutch on 2/14/2014, 5:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add info)
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  camprn on 2/14/2014, 6:11 pm

NICE! I like it!
If I may make a suggestion... perhaps separating the perennial herbs from the annual herbs. Also, think of the height of the mature plants. My basil can get to 18 inches tall or taller sometimes. Tarragon most likely will need a stake or a hoop. oregano is relatively low and thyme is a ground creeper.

Perennial : sage, oregano, thyme, tarragon, chives
annual: basil, cilantro/coriander

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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  Marc Iverson on 2/14/2014, 6:13 pm

Only about the herbs: culinary tarragon is propagated from living plants (I think the roots), rather than seed. The seed sold in packets is Russian tarragon, which isn't supposedly anywhere near as good, to the point, from my limited reading, where it might as well be a different plant.
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  boffer on 2/14/2014, 6:21 pm

Looks like good mechanical strength in the design.    

Will you be using ½ inch hardware cloth?  It's surprising how much the weight of saturated MM will cause the cloth to sag.  For peace of mind, I would put in 6 support braces rather than the 4 shown.  It might be overkill, but I would use  Simpson ties to secure the braces.

I don't know much about growing herbs so I'll pass on that part!
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  camprn on 2/14/2014, 6:24 pm

@boffer wrote:Looks like good mechanical strength in the design.    

Will you be using ½ inch hardware cloth?  It's surprising how much the weight of saturated MM will cause the cloth to sag.  For peace of mind, I would put in 6 support braces rather than the 4 shown.  It might be overkill, but I would use  Simpson ties to secure the braces.

I don't know much about growing herbs so I'll pass on that part!
I don't know much about carpentry and fabrication. What is a Simpson tie?


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There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance. ~ Henry David Thoreau

http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t1306-other-gardening-books



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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  boffer on 2/14/2014, 6:28 pm

rofl 

Metal galvanized straps formed in various configurations.  They can be time savers, space savers, additional protection from hurricanes and earthquakes, and allow amateurs to create solid and safe structures with less knowledge and skill.

Pictures:
https://www.google.com/search?q=simpson+tie&client=firefox-a&hs=ugT&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=aaT-UqPNAsj4oASU84DwAw&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAw&biw=1067&bih=723


Edit: HAH! I just saw this pic way down the page that I linked
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  camprn on 2/14/2014, 6:31 pm

oh COOL! Thanks Boff!

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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  plantoid on 2/14/2014, 6:35 pm

Some handy ties in there Boffer thanks for posting the link ....
Oh to have a builders merchant near here that has such a range , so I could go and feast my senses upon such engineering ...
Yep I getting cabin crazy .. it's rather damp & draughty around here!
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Trying Again to Answer

Post  rabbithutch on 2/14/2014, 9:33 pm

First, thank all of you, very much, for the responses and the suggestions.  They are most helpful.  I had not thought of annuals vs. perennials nor mature plant height.  That will have me rethinking my planting plan.  I'm certain to shift the thyme to a tall container and might do the same with the sage.  I plan to buy already started plants because I didn't plan far enough ahead to do them from seed.  I shall heed the warning about tarragon.  I also realized that I left out parsley.  I like the flat leaf Italian kind.

As for the TT build, all of the corners and the bottom brace will be held together with 9" by 3/8" diameter landscaping spikes.  The legs will be bolted through with 3/8" diameter carriage bolts using collar washers on each side and the teflon centered nuts that do not back out.  The goal of the design was to make it sturdy but also collapsible in case I need to relocate it.  I don't think Simpson ties will be necessary.

I plan to use 1/2" hardware cloth that will be attached to the sides using collar washers and screws about every 6" around the perimeter.  Most of the TT will be supported by an existing rather sturdy bench which explains the spacing of the cross supports on the bottom.  Only about 2 feet of one end will not be supported by the bench.  This also explains why there is but 1 leg along the length at the 'front' of the bed as the 'back' will be supported by the existing bench.  If moved to another location, it will be easy enough to add another leg to the 'back.'  Above the hardware cloth and attached the full depth of all sides, I will use a water permeable weed cloth.

I made a little progress today by marking out all of the lumber for cutting which I hope to accomplish tomorrow followed by assembly and installing the hardware cloth and weed cloth.  I shall try to remember to take photos and shall post them (if I remember).  I want to 'paint' the bed with my linseed oil concoction, so the installation of hardware and weed cloth will be delayed until I receive the linseed oil I ordered from Amazon.  To appease MLW (or 'er indoors, for my friends in the UK), I plan to paint the outer portion of the boards to match the trim on the house.  If all goes well, and if I can locate quantities of vermiculite and compost, the TT should be ready to plant before next weekend.

I've made progress in other areas as well.  My copy of ANSFG arrived in the mail and my kitchen counter compost scrap collector bucket came today.  Within days, I should be adding kitchen 'stuff' (not to include meat, grease, dairy, onion, or citrus) to my existing leaf and grass decay pile.  I shall also find some horse manure to heat it up.  On another front, I've discovered a close-by winery from which to purchase plastic barrels in the 55 gallon and 30 gallon sizes, very inexpensively.  I plan to dedicate 2 55's to collecting rainwater (a scarce substance in TX these days).  I thought I'd make a 30 gallon barrel into a rotating compost bin and use 3 or 4 others to store extra vermiculite, MM, etc.

PS:  If anyone can tell be how to retrieve a draft post, I'd be much obliged.

 
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  Kelejan on 2/14/2014, 9:57 pm

About collecting water in Texas. Make sure you do not need permission to do that. In some places you cannot collect rain runoff and store it.
Water is becoming a scarce commodity. Except right now in Western Amercia and the United Kingdom.
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  boffer on 2/14/2014, 11:40 pm

@rabbithutch wrote:...PS:  If anyone can tell be how to retrieve a draft post, I'd be much obliged.
 

If you click on the word 'Profile' in the green nav bar at the top of every page, it will open a page with some tabs on it; click on Drafts.
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  sanderson on 2/15/2014, 2:19 am

RH, Your TT looks good. Yes, do take photos and show us. I planted seeds indoors for herbs on Jan 24-28 and the following have sprouted.: Balm lemon, basil, borage, cilantro, lavender, parsley, rosemary, tarragon and thyme. Go ahead and try seedings. Maybe buy a couple of 2" pots just for a little greenery while you are watching the babies grow.
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

Post  rabbithutch on 2/15/2014, 12:11 pm

@boffer wrote:If you click on the word 'Profile' in the green nav bar at the top of every page, it will open a page with some tabs on it; click on Drafts.  

Thank you, boffer!! 
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Re: An Uninformed (i.e. 'Stupid') Question

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