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Summer squash question

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Summer squash question

Post  larknoelle on 5/7/2014, 7:25 pm

Hi, all, new to gardening here.

So what is spacing for vine & bush summer squash? Book has inconsistencies.

Add'l info:
The book says summer squash needs 1 plant per two squares; later it says vine summer squash needs 1 per two squares; the chart in the back says vine is 3 per square & bush is 1 per square.

THANKS!!


Last edited by camprn on 7/2/2014, 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : corrected title)

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  sanderson on 5/7/2014, 8:11 pm

In the ANSFG, 2nd Ed., it shows bush summer squash at 1 plant/9 sq. ft and vining summer squash at 1 plant/2 sq ft. It's not the roots that need that much space but rather the long-stemmed huge leaves. A bush summer squash can be planted in a corner square if there is room outside the box for it to fall over and grow. Use the search box for "vertical squash" and you will see many topics on the subject.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  Marc Iverson on 5/7/2014, 8:18 pm

@sanderson wrote:A bush summer squash can be planted in a corner square if there is room outside the box for it to fall over and grow. Use the search box for "vertical squash" and you will see many topics on the subject.

I did that kind of by accident last year. I planted a zucchini close to the edge of a box and as it grew it leaned toward where the sun was -- to the outside of the box. So lots of the vine wound up not in the box at all.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  larknoelle on 5/7/2014, 8:34 pm

Thanks for the info, Sanderson. That's crazy because the chart in the back of the edition I have (it does say revised but I'm assuming then it's still the first edition of All New) says the exact opposite (3) per square for vine & (1) per square per bush.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  sanderson on 5/7/2014, 11:11 pm

What is the name on the front cover? All New Square Foot Gardening? First Printing Revised Edition 2006?
I have both the 1st Ed. 2006 and the 2nd Ed., 20013. What page references the weird spacing? Is it a typo?

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  walshevak on 5/8/2014, 7:49 am

I also plant on the outside squares of my tabletops and let the plants hang over the edge. 1 bush  per 2 squares.  But I still usually have to trim off a leaf or two from the inside edges to prevent overshadowing of the inner squares.  Tall plants like okra, peppers and eggplant (1 per square) are good on the adjoining squares.  Their tall, skinny stalks leave room for the low squash leaves.

I also have winter squash planted 1 per 2 square, outside edges but next to a trellis this year.  We shall see.  

This year I'm trying pumpkins (small fruit) 1 per square and vining up the cattle panel trellis.  I expect I may need to top dress them mid season to make sure there are enough nutrients.  I'm using the same spacing and trellis method for watermelon and cantaloupe. 

Now is I can just outwit the dreaded SVB.   Twisted Evil   I have everything covered in tulle until blooms start appearing.  Except the tomatoes and peppers that are in buckets.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  AtlantaMarie on 5/8/2014, 8:02 am

Hi Larknoelle!  Welcome to the forum!

I'm one of those types who like to push things.  (I've also got a LOT of trellising.)  So I'm trying 1/sq if not 2/sq.  We'll see what happens...

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  sanderson on 5/8/2014, 12:15 pm

I also push things, averaging 1 per square. If I had room, I would plant 1 per 2 squares for vining squashes and melons.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  larknoelle on 5/8/2014, 12:52 pm

It is First Printing Revised Edition 2006.
It's pg. 157 - on side it says 'Plants per two square feet' 'summer squash (1)'
Pg. 162 in paragraph 'Pruning Cucumber, Melons & More' specifically talking about vine squash it says 2 square feet per plant
BUT contrary to all of that above, the back chart on pg. 192 is I guess where the typo is 'summer squash' 'spacing per sq. ft' 'bush - 1; vine - 3'

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  larknoelle on 5/8/2014, 12:58 pm

I'm still kind of confused.

We ordered 3 vines & planned to put it in 2 squares. We ordered 1 bush & had planned to put it in 1 square.

We pick up our seedlings on Saturday. Space is at a premium for us as we are only doing one 4X4 bed.

So... we definitely can't fit 3 vines in 2 squares, right?

My husband suggested we keep 2 of the vines & do all the squash 1 per square (so 2 vine in 2 squares and 1 bush in 1 square).

As experienced gardeners, does that seem problematic? & what will we encounter - a lot of pruning on the bush or the vine? (Still confused, sorry).

Thanks.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  TxGramma on 5/8/2014, 1:26 pm

First of all, do let it stress you out. Just consider it a learning experience and go for it. What I would do is plant your bush squash in a bucket instead of in your box. That will then give you three squares for your vining squash and I would go ahead and plant them one per square. If it ends up being too crowded or too hard to control later you can always sacrifice one...cut one out to give the other ones more room. 

If you have to put the bush plant in the garden, then I would put it in a corner square and train it vertically on a stake. It takes quite a bit of pruning to keep it contained but it can be done. And if you do that then I would only plant two of the squash vines in the other two squares.

The bush squash is a big plant with large leaves and hollow stems so it takes a lot of space.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  sanderson on 5/8/2014, 1:31 pm

Thanks for the page numbers.  Back chart on page 192 should indicate the following:

Cucumbers: 2 plants per 1 square foot (with trellis).  Their leaves are small so 2 will fit on that one linear foot of trellis.

Summer squash:  yellow straight- or crook-neck squash and zucchini:  As a bush, plant 1 per 9 sq ft (3' x 3'), unless you plant them in a corner square and let them fall over the side of the box.  The stems and leaves are long so the plant really spreads out.

Summer squash" vining varieties or trained to grow vertically, plant 1 per 2 squares. (2 linear feet of trellis or stakes).  Note:  I personally don't know of any "vining" summer squash.  However, with diligence, yellow and zucchini squash can be trained to grow vertically with a stake or trellis.

What exactly did you buy?  That will help us help you with the planting.  How big is your box?

PS While I was typing, Grandma wrote a reply. Yes, putting bush summer squash in large pots will free up the box for things that grow vertically (or are carefully pruned to grow vertically. There is a good YouTube video that clearly shows how to prune summer squash vertically. I'll see if I can find it.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  larknoelle on 5/8/2014, 2:27 pm

We ordered all three below: 

Zephr: Slender yellow fruits w/ green ends, pick small at 4-5” long for nutty flavor 
Sunburst: Bright yellow, patty pan type, pick young and cook whole for gourmet treat 
Straito d’Italia: Popular Italian variety, dark green with light stripes; excellent taste 

The guy orders from Johnny Seeds. We were able to find some but not the straito d'italia on the Johnny site. 

Zephr & Sunburst should be vining & the straio d'italia appears to be a bush from what we found online.

We were going to try one in each (2 trellis spots putting a zephr in one, a sunburst in the other; 1 regular spot putting the straito d'italia in that with stakes).

The only other option from the place we are getting our seedlings is below & I couldn't find any info about it online:

Spineless Perfection: Medium size, early, medium green, straight, cylindrical fruit, disease resistant

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  TxGramma on 5/8/2014, 2:58 pm

Oops that should have said DON'T let it stress you out. 

Here's the video that Sanderson mentioned, Growing vertically If you go about 5:30 in the video you will see how he grows zucchini vertically, which will be the same for yellow squash. This works well and it's how I grew mine last year. I will be doing it again this year as well.

If you look at images of the plants they are all three bush varieties like zucchini and yellow summer squash. I saw the info on Johnny's about the Zephyr but their info is confusing as they describe it as a 5' vine and also say that it is 24" in height. lol Google the plants and then go to images and you will see what I mean about them being bush not vine.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  larknoelle on 5/9/2014, 5:39 pm

Thanks, everyone! We will try 1 plant per square whether it's bush or vine but I will check with the farm tomorrow when we pick up to confirm the kind. Sometimes it's really hard to figure that out with squash & tomato!

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  camprn on 7/2/2014, 7:33 pm

http://www.vegetablegardener.com/item/5352/how-to-grow-superb-summer-squash/page/all

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  momvetkat on 2/21/2015, 12:37 am

I know this is an older thread but I am so confused about planning my garden, I LOVE summer squash and because of my limited space I have only grown tomatoes for many years, Now that I have some space to garden those two were my priorities. Although I realize I am going to have to single stem my tomatoes, I remained skeptical about the squash. Anyway I have zucchini Black Beauty, White Scallop and a Green Pattypan. How do I know if they are vining or bush? I do have them at corners but how many squares do you recommend?

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  sanderson on 2/21/2015, 2:28 am

The packet should indicate if they are a "vining" type. (Personally, this semi-experienced gardener has never gown or seen one) Otherwise, consider them a wide, squat plant, with long single stem with long stems and large leaves. If they are in corner spaces, you can let them fall over the side If you want to grow them vertically, you will have to be dedicated. Older, lower leaves will fade and you can cut them off. Always leave the stem just below a female flower/fruit.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  camprn on 2/21/2015, 7:45 am

Squash, regardless of growth type, take up a lot of space above the ground. I give them space in a bed separate from everything else. I love patty pan squash!

Some images from the web







Delicata


A trellised patty pan plant.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  AtlantaMarie on 2/21/2015, 9:07 am

Good NIGHT!  It looks like that Delicata is going to eat that woman!  Shocked

I found I had a problem with powdery mildew last year on my zuke.  I'll be trying whole milk spray this year...

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  CapeCoddess on 2/23/2015, 2:46 pm

Great photos, camp.  I can't imagine having to walk into those grounded squash plants in search of fruit with all that bare skin!  Ouchie wa wa!
affraid

Like Sanderson, I've yet to come across and vining summer squash, with the exception of an experimental 'Molly' squash (part Lebonese?) I had last year.  Two yrs ago I trellised my patty pan (bush) and it was fine.  But all my summer squashes get killed off by the squash vine borer so will need to be covered from now on.  Therefore they will go on the ground or in buckets & not be trellised.

Marie, there a zuke called 'Dunja' that is PM resistant. Sadly it's not SVB resistant.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  mollyhespra on 2/23/2015, 7:09 pm

I've had seeds come from the same package of zucchini that had bush habits, vining habits or somewhere in between (same tasty fruit, though, so I didn't care). Same with the original seed stock from whence came the "experimental" Molly squash CC mentioned. Oh, and that possible "lebanese" squash mix? The original parent 'Lebanese White Bush Marrow' was definitely a bush type. And even with a watermelon variety I grew once, the package said "bush" but it ended up vining.

I think if you have enough space in your aisles, putting them in a corner is a good idea just in case.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  has55 on 2/23/2015, 10:54 pm

has anyone found a easy way to control those squash bug. I love the squash, but when they get big, it's a lot of work looking under the leaves to find the bug.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  yolos on 2/24/2015, 6:06 pm

@has55 wrote:has anyone found a easy way to control those squash bug. I love the squash, but when they get big, it's a lot of work looking under the leaves to find the bug.

A hand held battery powered shop vac after they have hatched.  I have heard that tape wrapped around your hand with the sticky part sticking out will get the eggs but haven't tried it.

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Re: Summer squash question

Post  has55 on 2/24/2015, 8:22 pm

@yolos wrote:
@has55 wrote:has anyone found a easy way to control those squash bug. I love the squash, but when they get big, it's a lot of work looking under the leaves to find the bug.

A hand held battery powered shop vac after they have hatched.  I have heard that tape wrapped around your hand with the sticky part sticking out will get the eggs but haven't tried it.
thank you yolos for the idea. I see wonderful and beautiful pictures of various squash plants, but never seen anyone say they have actually master, bringing the dreaded squash bug beast off it high horse without some time consuming search and destroy mission. The cabbage worm, just pick it off or simple application of BT, but not the squash bug. 
It's 2015, I'm hoping someone has found a quick safe way. I used to apply heavy mineral oil in a spray bottle , then wash the plant off with safe non toxic soap. But you can't find it in the drugstore anymore.It would stop the adult squash bug in it's tracks. It died in Whatever  position it was in when you sprayed it,. done, ditto., in seconds. 
I guess I need to search online for it and see if it still available.
But I also wanted to see if there was any other easy and quick to use tricks of the trade from the heart and minds of the thousands , maybe millions, but not quite billions  of international SFGardeners. Very Happy

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Re: Summer squash question

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