Square Foot Gardening Forum

Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.


Search
 
 

Display results as :
 

 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» homemade ketchup
by Scorpio Rising Today at 11:07 pm

» Rotten Rats in my garden!
by RJARPCGP Today at 9:28 pm

» What are you eating from your garden today?
by donnainzone5 Today at 8:45 pm

» CANADIAN REGION: What are you doing in September 2016
by Mimi2 Today at 8:40 pm

» Now What do I do?
by donnainzone5 Today at 8:38 pm

» Northern California & Coastal Valleys - What are you doing this month?
by sanderson Today at 8:12 pm

» Senseless Banter...
by llama momma Today at 7:58 pm

» parsnips in square foot garden?
by Scorpio Rising Today at 7:08 pm

» N&C Midwest: September 2016
by Scorpio Rising Today at 6:21 pm

» Newbie composting questions
by sanderson Today at 4:03 pm

» compost thermometer
by trolleydriver Today at 9:23 am

» The Research Journey:free-The Gardener’s Guide TO PERFECT GARDEN SOIL
by jimmy cee Today at 8:48 am

» SFG Adventure of a first time gardener in ND
by MrBooker Today at 6:47 am

» Plantoid' s going into hospital ....
by plantoid Today at 6:22 am

» Hello from San Antonio, Tx.
by sanderson Today at 12:53 am

» 17 Everyday Things You've Been Doing Wrong
by has55 Yesterday at 11:28 pm

» Second Year SFG in Canada
by Scorpio Rising Yesterday at 7:51 pm

» What's a good type of lettuce to try for some one who doesn't like lettuce?
by CapeCoddess Yesterday at 11:59 am

» Mid-South: October 2016
by yolos Yesterday at 10:36 am

» In between
by Scorpio Rising 9/28/2016, 8:33 pm

» Tomato Mystery Mix
by sanderson 9/28/2016, 11:26 am

» Easy and Fabulous Crockpot Marinara
by trolleydriver 9/28/2016, 11:03 am

» newbeone
by Cajun Cappy 9/28/2016, 8:59 am

» The SFG Journey-Cover crops
by jimmy cee 9/27/2016, 9:45 pm

» Oh no! My hibiscus moscheutos plant has some roots exposed!
by RJARPCGP 9/27/2016, 9:37 pm

» Tryst with my first DIY SFG
by Mimi2 9/27/2016, 8:12 pm

» New England September 2016
by sanderson 9/27/2016, 7:50 pm

» Soil Blocks: Tutorial In Photos
by sanderson 9/27/2016, 2:57 pm

» Compost
by camprn 9/27/2016, 8:13 am

» Hand Pollination ?
by camprn 9/27/2016, 8:11 am

Google

Search SFG Forum

Determinate tomato spacing

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Determinate tomato spacing

Post  larknoelle on 5/8/2014, 1:24 pm

Another spacing question from a newbie. 

Are determinate tomatoes really 4 plants per 1 square?

I have All New Revised edition 2006 & it appears to have a typo with summer squash spacing that's a question for another topic. Now, I'm a bit concerned about the same chart's spacing for determinate tomatoes.  Pg. 192 says determinate tomatoes are spaced at (4) per 1 square.

I've had some concern about that before wondering if that's just way too cramped but now that other posters have established there is definitely a typo with the summer squash in the same chart, I wanted to get other people's opinion or maybe info about the second edition's spacing about determinate (non-vine tomatoes).

We are picking up our seedlings on Saturday & have 6 determinate plants ordered to fill 2 spaces.

Any info would be much appreciated! Thanks!

larknoelle

Posts : 9
Join date : 2014-05-07
Location : South New Jersey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

My two cents

Post  Jmichelle on 5/8/2014, 1:48 pm

I'm a SFG newbie. I ordered the book from Rodale press and asked for the newest version of the book, and the agent assured me that I had the latest version. After joining this forum, I realized that I don't have the newest version. I have what I believe is the second edition (2005).
This book has bush tomatoes at 4 per square as well, so I hope that helps a little. I only planted one per square just because I had a determinate tomato that got kinda big last year, and a couple of bush varieties that stayed nice and compact.
Am I confusing the two? I just got confuzzled  thinking 
I think I need to eat lunch..

Are all determinate varieties considered bush tomatoes?


Last edited by Jmichelle on 5/8/2014, 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I needed to clarify a question)

Jmichelle

Female Posts : 28
Join date : 2014-04-23
Age : 45
Location : Green Country/North East Oklahoma/Zone 7a

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  larknoelle on 5/8/2014, 2:22 pm

Determinate = bush; Indeterminate = vine.

Is everyone just ignoring the book about the 4 determinate tomatoes per square?

larknoelle

Posts : 9
Join date : 2014-05-07
Location : South New Jersey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  camprn on 5/8/2014, 2:35 pm

@larknoelle wrote:Determinate = bush; Indeterminate = vine.

Is everyone just ignoring the book about the 4 determinate tomatoes per square?
Hello,  If that is what it says it is an error. Did you happen to buy your book in a discount store?

I had determinate planted at one per square foot and indeterminate at 1 for every 2 squares. The plants were offset, like a checkerboard.

In both of these planting situations, plant management is required through pruning by removing all lower leaf branches below the first fruits. Upper plants will also need some pruning of suckers throughout the season.

____________________________

40 years a gardener and going strong with SFG.
http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-weeks-until-frost

There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance. ~ Henry David Thoreau

http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t1306-other-gardening-books

Outlander is outstanding!


camprn

Forum Moderator Certified SFG Teacher

Female Posts : 13981
Join date : 2010-03-06
Age : 54
Location : Keene, NH, USA ~ Zone 5a

View user profile http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-week

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  sanderson on 5/8/2014, 2:47 pm

Sounds like typos to me.  Shocked  Should read Bush (or determinants) toms 1 plant / 9 sq ft. Vine 1 plant/sq ft. Trellising or stakes required for vining or indeterminants. You CAN train/prune determinants (bush) to make them into skinny tall plants. You may be buying a few large pots or 5 gallon food-grade buckets and stakes for the toms and summer squashes!!  Very Happy 

sanderson

Forum Administrator

Female Posts : 11711
Join date : 2013-04-21
Age : 67
Location : Fresno CA Zone 8-9

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  TxGramma on 5/8/2014, 3:01 pm

+1 but I wouldn't prune determinates you need the growth to produce toms as they stop growing and stop producing unlike the indet.

TxGramma

Female Posts : 199
Join date : 2013-05-27
Age : 49
Location : Texas 9A

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Here it is

Post  Jmichelle on 5/8/2014, 3:05 pm

I purchased my book from Rodale press. What we saw was the crop-by-crop planting guide at the back of the edition I ended up with, 2005.
For spacing, it states; bush types 4 plants per 4' x 4' block; vine type- 1 plant per square (12").
*reading fail* Embarassed

Jmichelle

Female Posts : 28
Join date : 2014-04-23
Age : 45
Location : Green Country/North East Oklahoma/Zone 7a

View user profile

Back to top Go down

New edition in order

Post  Jmichelle on 5/8/2014, 3:09 pm

Think i'm going to order the the newest edition....and make sure that's actually what i'm getting.

Jmichelle

Female Posts : 28
Join date : 2014-04-23
Age : 45
Location : Green Country/North East Oklahoma/Zone 7a

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  walshevak on 5/8/2014, 3:28 pm

No matter which you plant, they will need staking/trellising.  Even the determinates get pretty tall and definately sprawl all over.  I did the opposite from Camprn, 1 indeterminate per square and 1 indeterminate per 2 squares until I started running out of bed space to try new veggies and decided to go to 5 gal buckets next to a trellis for all my tomatoes.

Kay

____________________________

A WEED IS A FLOWER GROWING IN THE WRONG PLACE
Elizabeth City, NC
Find more about Weather in Elizabeth City, NC
Click for weather forecast

walshevak

Certified SFG Instructor

Female Posts : 4302
Join date : 2010-10-17
Age : 73
Location : wilmington, nc zone 8

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  rabbithutch on 5/8/2014, 3:54 pm

I've read about the determinant vs indeterminate types of tomatoes, but I've never seen a good source for finding out if a specific variety is determinant or not.  I always buy plants instead of growing from seed, and that information is usually missing.  Doesn't variety also affect plant spacing?

While I'm about it, what about cherry tomato plant spacing per square?  Any guidelines?  If it's in my books, I've missed it.

Finally, tell me about wilt.  When I grew tomatoes many decades ago in NC, I was always careful to buy wilt resistant varieties because I never had any luck otherwise.  Now, I see almost nothing about wilt and wilt resistant varieties.  Has wilt gone away?  I know that it is a soil borne pathogen.  Can it also exist in MM?  If so, is it still important to ensure that plants are wilt resistant varieties?

rabbithutch

Male Posts : 293
Join date : 2014-02-08
Location : central TX USA Zone 8a

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  boffer on 5/8/2014, 4:57 pm

I have the copyrighted version 2005. It is the old book. Although there is good info in it, you definitely want to get the new version, copyright 2006 or 2013.

____________________________

Last frost date (50%): April 15     First frost date (50%): Oct 15    
Zone: Irrelevant

boffer

Male Posts : 7392
Join date : 2010-02-26
Age : 63
Location : yelm, wa, usa

View user profile http://boffer.us/

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  Marc Iverson on 5/8/2014, 5:05 pm

Wilt of many types is specified by the name of the pathogen these days, e.g., fusarium, verticillium(sp?), which makes it easier to talk about and tackle. Many things cause wilt, and some aren't even diseases at all. So you might find plants listed as resistant to drought, or some disease, both of which can cause wilting in their own way and time and degree.

One way to find out about particular types of tomatoes is to look at seed catalogues. The big ones, like Johnny's, Seedsavers, Territorial, Bakers Creek, Parkers, Botanical Interests, and others will often have on their website, in their catalogs, or both, a lot of information on each seed they sell. Or anyway enough particulars to orient you, let you understand what you might be ordering, and get you started. What one catalog has only a little on, another might have a lot of info on. And what one doesn't have, another might. Additionally, there are specialty tomato sites like tomatoville.com and others, both commercial and non-commercial, that have plenty of info to share.

Also, a google on things like "types of tomatoes" or "tomato cultivars" can turn up lots of info.

Finally, I think there is a way to tell determinate from indeterminate by a quick look at the stem and leaf structure ... can't for the life of me remember what it is, though. Another google possibility.

Marc Iverson

Male Posts : 3636
Join date : 2013-07-05
Age : 55
Location : SW Oregon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  johnp on 5/8/2014, 5:41 pm

My Viva Italia's I plant every year for freezing and sauces are determinate. I plant four in a 4x4 box and they use all the space. This year (if the freeze doesn't win) I have one planted in a 2x4 with two Umberto's (sp).  That will be a total of 5 with the two indeterm. paste tomato's.

johnp

Male Posts : 644
Join date : 2013-01-05
Age : 71
Location : high desert, Penrose CO

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  camprn on 5/8/2014, 6:15 pm

http://myfolia.com/

This is a great website with a nice plant wiki database.

____________________________

40 years a gardener and going strong with SFG.
http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-weeks-until-frost

There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance. ~ Henry David Thoreau

http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t1306-other-gardening-books

Outlander is outstanding!


camprn

Forum Moderator Certified SFG Teacher

Female Posts : 13981
Join date : 2010-03-06
Age : 54
Location : Keene, NH, USA ~ Zone 5a

View user profile http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-week

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  Jmichelle on 5/8/2014, 7:46 pm

@boffer wrote:I have the copyrighted version 2005.  It is the old book.  Although there is good info in it, you definitely want to get the new version, copyright 2006 or 2013.
Oh thanks! I didn't know there was a 2013 version.

Jmichelle

Female Posts : 28
Join date : 2014-04-23
Age : 45
Location : Green Country/North East Oklahoma/Zone 7a

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  TxGramma on 5/8/2014, 8:58 pm

ANSF Second Edition  this is the new one with the current info.

TxGramma

Female Posts : 199
Join date : 2013-05-27
Age : 49
Location : Texas 9A

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  Jmichelle on 5/8/2014, 9:07 pm

Thanks!

Jmichelle

Female Posts : 28
Join date : 2014-04-23
Age : 45
Location : Green Country/North East Oklahoma/Zone 7a

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  camprn on 5/9/2014, 5:55 am

@walshevak wrote:No matter which you plant, they will need staking/trellising.  Even the determinates get pretty tall and definately sprawl all over.  I did the opposite from Camprn, 1 indeterminate per square and 1 indeterminate per 2 squares until I started running out of bed space to try new veggies and decided to go to 5 gal buckets next to a trellis for all my tomatoes.

Kay
I did try to grow indeterminate tomatoes one per square foot. After two years I planted the indeterminate toms every other square with improved results. More space for roots to take up nutrients and increased air circulation in the bed allowed for an improved environment that was less hospitable to diseases.

____________________________

40 years a gardener and going strong with SFG.
http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-weeks-until-frost

There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance. ~ Henry David Thoreau

http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t1306-other-gardening-books

Outlander is outstanding!


camprn

Forum Moderator Certified SFG Teacher

Female Posts : 13981
Join date : 2010-03-06
Age : 54
Location : Keene, NH, USA ~ Zone 5a

View user profile http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-week

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  TxGramma on 5/9/2014, 10:07 am

I +1 Sanderson's comment earlier in this post about what the current copy of the book says about the spacing of toms but didn't say how I do mine. First of all, no way am I going to give one plant 9 squares I would plant it in a bucket outside of my SFG. That being said I planted my indeterminates 2 per 3 squares (which is basically 1 per every other square but I didn't center them in the square they were in) spaced about 9 or 10 inches from the outside of the square and leaving about 16-18" between the two toms. I liked having the extra space, especially since I don't prune as heavily as some do. My determinates were spaced at 1 per square. I caged one and did Florida weave on the others. I like the Florida weave better, the caged one was too bushy and confined not enough air flow. Last year was not a great year for my toms though, got them in too late and had some stress issues with my det so had some stunted growth. So I'm trying the same spacing on them this year and doing Florida weave on my det to see if I still like it with hopefully better growth. If so then I will continue spacing my det at 1 per square with the Florida weave; if not then next year my det will be in buckets. I really like the spacing on the ind though so will keep planting them at 2 per 3 squares.

TxGramma

Female Posts : 199
Join date : 2013-05-27
Age : 49
Location : Texas 9A

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  sanderson on 5/9/2014, 1:23 pm

TxGramma, I planted 3 toms over 4 linear feet. In a 2 x 3 bed, I planted 3 staggered, that is, 2 corner squares on one 3' side and one in the center square of the other 3' side. Containers for all the peppers and herbs. My square footage in sunny areas is too precious to give anything more than 2 squares, much less 9 squares. Summer and winter squares 1/square, either tall trellises or corners.

sanderson

Forum Administrator

Female Posts : 11711
Join date : 2013-04-21
Age : 67
Location : Fresno CA Zone 8-9

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  camprn on 5/9/2014, 1:28 pm

@TxGramma wrote: I liked having the extra space, especially since I don't prune as heavily as some do. My determinates were spaced at 1 per square. I caged one and did Florida weave on the others. I like the Florida weave better, the caged one was too bushy and confined not enough air flow. Last year was not a great year for my toms though, got them in too late and had some stress issues with my det so had some stunted growth. So I'm trying the same spacing on them this year and doing Florida weave on my det to see if I still like it with hopefully better growth. If so then I will continue spacing my det at 1 per square with the Florida weave; if not then next year my det will be in buckets. I really like the spacing on the ind though so will keep planting them at 2 per 3 squares.
I too have gone to mostly Florida weave for tomato support. In addition to supporting the plant it keeps it more contained in a limited vertical space.

____________________________

40 years a gardener and going strong with SFG.
http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-weeks-until-frost

There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance. ~ Henry David Thoreau

http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t1306-other-gardening-books

Outlander is outstanding!


camprn

Forum Moderator Certified SFG Teacher

Female Posts : 13981
Join date : 2010-03-06
Age : 54
Location : Keene, NH, USA ~ Zone 5a

View user profile http://squarefoot.creatingforum.com/t3574-the-end-of-july-7-week

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  TxGramma on 5/9/2014, 3:05 pm

@sanderson wrote:TxGramma,  I planted 3 toms over 4 linear feet.  In a 2 x 3 bed, I planted 3 staggered, that is, 2 corner squares on one 3' side and one in the center square of the other 3' side.  Containers for all the peppers and herbs.  My square footage in sunny areas is too precious to give anything more than 2 squares, much less 9 squares.  Summer and winter squares 1/square, either tall trellises or corners.
That's for sure. I have more space in my yard than you do but still not enough to give any plant that much room. I do the same with my summer squash, 1 per square, and train them on stakes . I really liked how that worked out as well. And all of my herbs are in pots except some of my basil that I am planting in the edge of my tomato squares.

TxGramma

Female Posts : 199
Join date : 2013-05-27
Age : 49
Location : Texas 9A

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  TxGramma on 5/9/2014, 3:13 pm

@camprn wrote:I too have gone to mostly Florida weave for tomato support. In addition to supporting the plant it keeps it more contained in a limited vertical space.
I agree, I really liked it last year and I'm definitely using it again this year. It's easy to do and like you said gave good support and contained the plants well.

TxGramma

Female Posts : 199
Join date : 2013-05-27
Age : 49
Location : Texas 9A

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  larknoelle on 5/9/2014, 5:34 pm

Thanks, everyone. We would have been totally boned if we had planted indeterminate 4 plants to a square. We will try it 1 vine per square & 1 determinate per square. But we are picking up our plants tomorrow & it's last chance to not get plants.... So...

We were now planning on getting a celebrity & mountain fresh plus for our determinates. Our vines are new girl & san marzano. Any thoughts on those breeds being 1 square per plant?

We will stake the determinates & the vines will grow on the trellis.

Thanks, again, everyone!!

(Also, note the book was the library copy. We wanted to test the book our before buying so that answer's that - old version!)

larknoelle

Posts : 9
Join date : 2014-05-07
Location : South New Jersey

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  Turan on 5/10/2014, 1:02 pm

I found SanMarzano does very well trellised up.  It has a spare growth pattern and did not branch a lot so not a lot of pruning needed.

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Belgrade, MT
Click for weather forecast

Turan

Female Posts : 1995
Join date : 2012-03-29
Location : Gallatin Valley, Montana, Intermountain zone 4

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Determinate tomato spacing

Post  Sponsored content Today at 11:28 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum