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peas then beans?

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peas then beans?

Post  jerzyjen on 3/8/2010, 12:11 am

Had a thought, wondering what you experienced gardeners think. I remember last year my snow peas went crazy early and had most of the summer available to those spots. i was thinking of putting in some pole beans this year for a late summer harvest after the snow pea harvest since that area is already trellesed. Good idea? Bad idea? What do you guys think?

Another question about peas. Last year I followed instructions for freezing my snow peas on the internet by blanching (? like half cooking them?) but when i eat them now they are limp and watery. Can I just pop them right into the freezer after the harvest to help keep that snappyness or will that not work? Gotta know now so that I plan for the correct number of boxes (if i can freeze sucessfully ill up the box count)

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Freezing instructions

Post  SirTravers on 3/8/2010, 12:22 am

Here's a blurb on preserving your snow peas from Farmers Almanac.com


Preparing to Eat, Cook or Freeze~
Pinch off the ends and pull to remove the strings along the seams of the pods before eating or freezing. The fresh peas can now be eaten raw, stir-fried, steamed, stored in a plastic bag in the refrigerator for two weeks or frozen.
Freezing~
The peas must be blanched before storing in the freezer. To blanch, add 4 quarts of water to a pot and bring to a boil. While water is heating, prepare the pods as instructed in previous paragraph. Add 2 to 3 cups of pea pods to the boiling water and cover. Time for exactly 2 minutes and remove promptly from heat. Drain off water and place the pea pods immediately in a bowl of ice water for 2 minutes. Remove from bowl and dry pea pods on paper towels. Place snow peas or sugar snap peas into freezer bags or containers, seal, label and store in freezer.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  Lavender Debs on 3/8/2010, 12:59 am

Jerzy, go to the produce aisle, Trader Joes probably has bags of fresh (or at least freshish)snow peas. Put just a few in a ziploc bag, suck out all the air. And pop them into the freezer. After a couple of days, bring them out. Try cooking some fresh any way you want. Thaw some for your salad. You will know why you need to blanch them. It kills the enzymes that break down the vegetation. Plunging them right into ice water helps keep them nice, but there is only one way to have fresh veggies.

Keep trying to find a way to keep them krisp.

Can I just say, there is a joy in seasonal, local eating. But you have to embrace it. Bless you in your quest Jerzy!

BTW, you can freeze bell peppers, onions, garlic and basil without blanching, but use them for cooking, not fresh salads.

Deborah ….who has made all kinds of gaffs in the kitchen. My family lived to tell.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  boffer on 3/8/2010, 1:27 am

We're convinced that 2 min blanching and right into ice water is the way to go-we've had very good results.

Freezing veggies at their prime, and not a day later, gives the best results-as close to fresh as possible. Our corn last year was exceptionally good (peaches and cream) and the corn we froze was the best frozen corn I've ever had. There was a little loss of flavor, but not much

I've had success trellis sharing between peas and cucumbers. The peas are finishing up about the time the cukes are looking for a place to climb. I put peas on one side of the trellis, and cukes on the other. I plant the cukes 4-6 weeks after the peas.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  plb on 3/10/2010, 4:24 am

Since peas and beans belong to the same family (leguminosae), for best results you should not plant them one after the other. According to the principles of crop rotation, you should plant something from another family; according to some crop rotation methods, root vegetables, onion, carrots and tomatoes are good after legumes. If none of those fits timing/space/tastes, just avoid legumes. There's some good info, and a table with "what plant family is X" in:
http://www.gardenorganic.org.ukwww.gardenorganic.org.uk/schools_organic_network/leaflets/CropRotation.pdf

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  jerzyjen on 3/10/2010, 9:54 am

Thanks for all your replies. I froze my peas using the blanching method as described by the Center for Home Food preservation http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/. So since it sounds like I did it right, its just the nature of the beast I guess to be soggy after freezing. Believe me, they held the flavor and looked as gorgeous green as they day I picked them, its just like my snow peas to have some snap. So that being said, I have decided to cut down the number of boxes and just enjoy them while they are fresh, and put the beans in the boxes next to them. That way they can all use the trellis. If i need a snow pea fix in the winter ill just have to pick some up at the grocery store.

Great link on rotation PLB, thanks for sharing.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  gridgardener on 3/11/2010, 12:07 pm

PJL there is no issue with planting beans after peas.
the issue you are inferring does not exist.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  plb on 3/11/2010, 12:11 pm

Most people think it does matter (but of course they could be wrong); and it does sound sensible. In any case, it's so easy to do some simple crop rotation in a SFG, that I don't see why it wouldn't be a good idea to do it anyway.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  gridgardener on 3/11/2010, 4:10 pm

plb you misunderstand me. there are issues with planting the same crop family in same place. This issue is not present between peas and beans. which people think it matter? Are you refering to garden experts if so which ones.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  boffer on 3/11/2010, 4:20 pm

OK, I'm getting confused. If beans and peas are in the same crop family, why is crop rotation between them not an issue in this case?

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  Lavender Debs on 3/11/2010, 7:24 pm

@boffer wrote:OK, I'm getting confused. If beans and peas are in the same crop family, why is crop rotation between them not an issue in this case?

Because Boff .....they like to do the Hokey Pokey better then the Crop Rotation.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  boffer on 3/11/2010, 7:41 pm

Okey Dokey on the Hokey pokey...I always like it when we're supposed to put our 'best' side in and shake it all about...

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  Kabaju42 on 3/11/2010, 11:30 pm

Jerzyjen: Another thing that can affect your peas is how you freeze them. If you just put them all in a bag and throw that in the freezer then the water freezes slowly, making large water crystals. These large crystals then damage the peas at the cellular level making them limp.

What they do in the frozen food industry is a process called IDF (individually frozen). The produce to be frozen is arranged in a single layer on the conveyor belt or trays and then put in a special freezer. The freezer will then blast the produce with cold so quickly that the large ice crystals can't form. Instead you get small ice crystals that don't damage the produce.

I know you don't have a blast freezer, but you can do something similar. Start by putting cookie sheets in the freezer to get them cold. After you blanch the peas, put them in ice water to cool them down quickly (which you should be doing anyway as part of the blanch process.) Then take the peas out of the water and take off the extra water by patting them dry with a paper towel, or something like that. Take the cookie sheets out of the freezer, put the peas on them in a single layer, and put the cookie sheets back in the freezer. Since the peas are in a single layer they freeze faster. Also the direct contact with the cold metal of the cookie sheets will freeze them faster. Once they're frozen put them in the baggies.

The process takes longer, but I bet you'll be happy with the results.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  gridgardener on 3/12/2010, 1:37 am

boffer because not all plants in family one planted after the other cause problems.
for problems to occur the same crop family has to be planted in same place more then one year.
Also beans and peas fall in list good companions with each other.
so if follow mel's chart at back of new book the peas end just in time to plant the last crop beans.

plb as I state before show me where there is real issue with pea then beans?

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  plb on 3/12/2010, 4:57 am

All the information about crop rotation talks about rotating between families, and nowhere I've seen that peas and beans are the exception. Unless I see that, I'll assume that peas and beans follow the same rule - you might not get problems, but it's a good guideline to rotate them. Being companions doesn't mean anything - I'd interpret it as good to put one next to the other. You might not get any problem by planting them one after the other, but why risk if you have an alternative?
Anyway, I don't see why all the fuss, feel free to plant them one after the other... As any advice, we're all free to take it or leave it.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  chocolatepop on 3/12/2010, 8:50 am

Hi all,

well, lets consider the primary purpose of crop rotation. To avoid pest/disease and nutrient depletion.

I personally don't think nutrient depletion will be an issue with these plants and because of the mel's mix.

So I say, try it. Trial and error Wink

Many many people do and don't rotate crops, some don't because of room or possibly lack of knowledge, some do because of prior experience and knowledge.

That being said, I did same season same family plantings with no problem. Basically it ended up being succession planting, like I would plant every two weeks, and then when the first group died back, I turned over and planted there again.

If you are worried, what about cukes? If you were planning on cukes you could plant those after the peas, and plant your pole beans where the cukes would have been?

Trial and error Wink

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  gridgardener on 3/12/2010, 9:23 am

Plb crop rotation is practice not rule. like any other practices there are reasons it is done. A rule is some thing that may have exceptions but other wise is always true.
Also it has been shown on the scale of a small bed such as most square foots beds rotation is not of any great benifit.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  Daynannan on 3/12/2010, 9:34 am

What a hot topic. I think it is a good idea and I think I'll try it. I only have 6 to 8 squares that I have trellises for and with pumpkin and zucchini taking up 2 squares each that leaves me little room for my peas, beans & edamame.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  boffer on 3/12/2010, 9:40 am

@Daynannan wrote:What a hot topic. I think it is a good idea and I think I'll try it. I only have 6 to 8 squares that I have trellises for and with pumpkin and zucchini taking up 2 squares each that leaves me little room for my peas, beans & edamame.

When space is limited, sometimes we 'cheat' by letting vining crops use the walkway to grow in. Don't know if that's feasible in your case, just an option to keep in mind.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  Daynannan on 3/12/2010, 9:49 am

When space is limited, sometimes we 'cheat' by letting vining crops use the walkway to grow in. Don't know if that's feasible in your case, just an option to keep in mind.

I'm more limited my my husband putting a ban on new beds until I'm successful with the ones I have. I always get ahead of myself...I want to plant EVERYTHING. Oooo that looks good I'll plant those...why not another variety of carrots...Do I have room for red onions, shallots and leeks? I only have 22 squares.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  jerzyjen on 3/12/2010, 11:38 am

@Kabaju42 wrote:Jerzyjen: Another thing that can affect your peas is how you freeze them. If you just put them all in a bag and throw that in the freezer then the water freezes slowly, making large water crystals. These large crystals then damage the peas at the cellular level making them limp.

What they do in the frozen food industry is a process called IDF (individually frozen). The produce to be frozen is arranged in a single layer on the conveyor belt or trays and then put in a special freezer. The freezer will then blast the produce with cold so quickly that the large ice crystals can't form. Instead you get small ice crystals that don't damage the produce.

I know you don't have a blast freezer, but you can do something similar. Start by putting cookie sheets in the freezer to get them cold. After you blanch the peas, put them in ice water to cool them down quickly (which you should be doing anyway as part of the blanch process.) Then take the peas out of the water and take off the extra water by patting them dry with a paper towel, or something like that. Take the cookie sheets out of the freezer, put the peas on them in a single layer, and put the cookie sheets back in the freezer. Since the peas are in a single layer they freeze faster. Also the direct contact with the cold metal of the cookie sheets will freeze them faster. Once they're frozen put them in the baggies.

The process takes longer, but I bet you'll be happy with the results.

I did all that, exactly like that. Maybe I'm just too picky about my snow peas.

I certainly didnt mean to cause controversy here. I have a feeling that no matter what my plan says NOW that as the season progresses its bound to change (thats why i do it in pencil). Its already changed about 4 times in the past month. I may go ahead and try to do a square of beans right after the first peas are done and then also plant some beans in another square and compare results. Heck I don't even know if Im going to eat the beans! I'm growing them for my brother & sister in law it was a request from last year.

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Jen

Post  boffer on 3/12/2010, 11:45 am

Ask ten gardeners a question, and sometimes you'll get ten different answers! Usually, the only 'right' answer is the one that works for you.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  plb on 3/12/2010, 12:16 pm

It's more like "ask ten gardeners a question, and you'll get eleven answers".

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  gridgardener on 3/12/2010, 2:00 pm

plb when will you be givening actual answer.

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Re: peas then beans?

Post  boffer on 3/12/2010, 2:15 pm

This thread has played itself out, so I'm locking it. It's springtime-there's work to be done!

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