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Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

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Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  sanderson on 8/27/2014, 4:20 am

Plantoid just mentioned this hot, quick method for making compost in another topic "Fertilizer in Bagged Mix."

I think the Berkeley method is a great way to quickly make your own compost, although I have never been able to make it in 18 days.  My fault for not turning it every 2 days.  I started daily recordings this year.  Pile #4 was started April 7 this spring and was finished in 27 days, then rested a week, for a total of 34 days.  It was turned a total of 7 times.  Pile #5 was started June 29, finished in 36 days and turned 8 times, then used on day 40.  The current pile #6 was started August 10 and turned 4 times so far.  I estimate it will be finished in 30 days, then rested a week.  So, up to 40 days from start to finish seems to be my pattern.  I will build one more, #7, in September.  I finally feel a lessening of the panic I've had, since I started SFG 1 1/2 years ago, that I don't have enough compost for making more MM and recharging used beds.  I should have a full bin volume (27 cu ft) of ready-to-use compost come next spring.

The cage is 3' x 3' x 3' inner dimensions, the minimum mass for hot or "hottie" compost.  The final volume is about 1/2, or 13 1/2 cubic feet.


Last edited by sanderson on 1/15/2015, 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  plantoid on 8/27/2014, 6:06 am

For many the idea of turning a massive compost heap six or seven times in three weeks or so  is very daunting.

 Just to set minds at rest I'm classed as 75 % disabled with a bust shoulder joint , wrecked knees & spinal problems  and all manner of other niggling things.

 I practice the 18 day method when I can .

I have had to modify my approach , so that my spade is a kiddies 4 x 4 inch square sand spade araldite glued onto an old sea fishing rod butt end to make it four feet long , I have a similar sized hoe to drag material down off the heap to shovel up .  Lots of times I have to sit down when doing the shovelling and turning material into a new bin .. it can be done .. it just takes a bit longer and a lot more thought plus many more rests .

 The real success though is that I have my seven composter Daleks set on smooth concrete , this makes scraping up and shovelling a total breeze in any weather . Had I had to shovel " off the heap " I'd have like as not been unable to do it.

 So a simple way for those not so fit as others is perhaps to use a 2 foot square board or steel sheet to shovel up off rather than have to dig directly deep into a compost heap . Dragging material off the heap onto the board also lets in lots of air for the bacterial to use.
 Like eating the elephant , by doing it one bite at a time you will succeed .

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  Marc Iverson on 8/27/2014, 6:10 pm

I'll sure vouch for how intimidating turning a huge compost pile can be. Especially in strong summer heat. Maybe that's why sanderson writes about working so late into the night -- at least it's cooler, so she might not feel quite as much like she's working in a Mississippi chain gang.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  sanderson on 8/28/2014, 1:04 am

@Marc Iverson wrote: Maybe that's why sanderson writes about working so late into the night -- at least it's cooler, so she might not feel quite as much like she's working in a Mississippi chain gang.
Yep, sundown or night with the back yard lights, or pre-sunrise.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  audrey.jeanne.roberts on 8/28/2014, 1:11 am

Sanderson, since you've been so successful with your compost can you share what your "recipe" is for your layers when you begin the pile?

I think it would be very helpful for beginners

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  sanderson on 8/28/2014, 1:22 pm

Gosh, I still feel like an intermediate student on compost.  Each pile is a 'pile de jour' with what is available at that time of the year.  But, here goes.

Bin:  minimum of 3' x 3' x 3', maximum of 4' x 4' x 4'.

Building:  Alternate layers, approximately 6" of dry browns with 1-2" of fresh greens, starting with the browns. I like to start with 6" of bedding straw on the bottom because it doesn't flatten into a solid mat like dry leaves do.  I think there is more more air space, also.  Wet it well.  Add 1-2" of chopped produce and horse manure pucks.  Then 6" more of straw, dried leaves, left over alfalfa hay, coffee grounds, what ever browns are available.  Wet after each thick layer of browns.  Then 2" more of chopped produce and manure.  At 1' (1 foot) and 2' (2 feet) of height, I sprinkle 1/2 cup of blood meal.  I think I will cut down to 1/4 cup on these.  Finish building to 3' or more, because the weight will compress the brown material.  Top with 1" or 2" of straw or leaves for fly and odor control.  Stick in the thermometer to the center core where it will be the hottest.

Brown Material:  For quick Berkeley piles, I will never use wood chips, twigs and shavings, again.  Also, no more peanut shells or chopped corn stalks/leaves. The short time does not allow them to break down.  I think wood products are better suited for long, slow piles.  I love alfalfa hay as a brown because the stalks break down, but I think it has too much nitrogen to use as the only brown.  Bedding wheat straw is nice for turning and helps maintain some air pockets inside.  I don't think the larger Slurppy-sized-straw pieces will completely break down this time but I will screen them out and add to the next new pile.  Also, straw holds pitch fork-full of compost when turning.   Very Happy  Small, thin, non-waxy dried leaves are great but can really mat down so when turning you will have to break them up.  Also Starbucks coffee pucks.  I break up the pucks into fines by dancing on the bags. Very Happy

Green material:  always chopped produce and fresh/recently dried horse manure.  I have used green lawn clippings (really thin layers) and fresh chopped sea kelp as greens.  Still looking for the allusive sea food shells from Crab, lobster and shrimp.

Turning:  On day 3-4, the internal temp should be 160*F.  Time for first turn.  I don't have room for a second bin so I have to do double work.  I spread a large blue tarp down and remove materials into 2 piles.  One pile consists of the drier 6" of the top and 6" of the 2 sides and 6" of the back side of the material.  The other larger pile consists of the inner remaining core (2 1/2' tall, 2' across, and 2 1/2' depth.  I don't include the front 6" against the wood slats as exterior material because it stays moist and warm.  Then I rebuild it with the drier exterior material in the core and the wetter interior material on the exterior.  Spray with hose attachment when you rebuild, as needed, to keep it moist during the days.  Repeat every 2 days.  Ha! rofl  Theoretically, If you turn it every other day after the first Day 4 turning (I'm still rolling on the floor) you will have compost ready to rest on day 18.  That's also the time when you go in for back surgery.  If you turn it every third day, the compost will be ready to rest in 25 days and you only have to go to physical therapy.  Every fourth day, in 32 days, etc.

PS:  The inner compost is really hot so turn in the cool of the day.

http://deepgreenpermaculture.com/diy-instructions/hot-compost-composting-in-18-days/


Last edited by sanderson on 8/28/2014, 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add)

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  yolos on 8/28/2014, 1:46 pm

Wow Sanderson, great write up and a lot of work.  You do know that coffee grounds are considered more of a green (nitrogen) don't you.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  llama momma on 8/28/2014, 2:46 pm

I totally envy you Sanderson for getting your compost going.  I need to get started too.  This morning my neighbor dropped off a couple hundred spent corn stalks for my compost heaps.
The 2 large  leaf corrals still contain loads of leaves and my barrels still have grape pomace from last year plus there are bags of  starbucks coffee grounds, bags of dried grass, and piles of manure.  All I need are a little bit cooler days to get 5 wood pallet heaps going again.  
One fork at a time......  I wish we had a compost emoticon!

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  sanderson on 8/28/2014, 3:26 pm

While outside in the garden, I thought of 2 more browns I wouldn't put in a Berkeley pile:  crushed peanut shells and corn stalk/leaves.  There just isn't enough time for them to break down.  I edited my original description to reflect these 2 no-no ingredients.

Yolos,  I used to think they were greens, and then someone called them browns.  thinking  I don't use enough to throw the ratios off too much.  Maybe 5 bags/pile.  My new favorite green this year is horse manure.

LM,     I know what it looks like, but it is a dancing compost pile!  Very Happy   If I had 5 bins to fill, I would feel overwhelmed.  Think of them like dirty dishes, wash/build one at a time.

PS: Regarding crushed peanut shells. I received some green peanuts at the farmer's market last year and shopped/smashed them up. I ran them through 3 compost piles and they were still intact. I still think shredded peanut shells should be studied as a peat substitute.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  llama momma on 8/28/2014, 3:34 pm

I'm not too fond of that supposedly dancing compost pile. It looks too much like something else. Razz 

Anyway, I wanted to ask if you chopped the corn stalks into little pieces and still had trouble with breaking it down in a Berkeley heap?   Of course its no trouble in a regular slow cooking heap and the stalks actually help keep oxygen in the pile.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  sanderson on 8/28/2014, 11:21 pm

LM, Yes, I chopped the stalks in 1"+ pieces and the single leaves in 2" lengths. Still didn't break down in the Berkeley piles.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  llama momma on 8/29/2014, 6:51 am

Thank you! That's very helpful info.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  GWN on 8/29/2014, 10:09 am

I have been working on creating hot composts for the past 3 years and feel that I finally have the equation down,
Garden waste is apparently the perfect ratio  30:1
I use weeds, and spent plants, trimmings etc.
I put them all through a chipper and find that I have been very successful at getting fast, hot compost.
The weeds I have are quack grass, which can spread by seed, OR by root. I never let them get to the seed stage and so only deal with the roots.
After they have been shredded in the chipper, and heated, I have never had a problem of them sprouting. The cool thing about quack grass, is that if it IS going to sprout, it will do so very fast and that would be at the compost stage.
I also have a  tumbler which I have never had success with until I decided to try tumbling  the chipper stuff and it works wonderfully now.
I try to save my household compost in a bucket until I am going to be starting a new pile.
The only time  I start new piles is when I do a large load of chipping.

Another thing I have found helpful has been my household "bullet"   Those inexpensive  blenders you can get at costco. I sometimes put my household stuff into a large bullet container and that stuff really ignites the compost pile.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  yolos on 8/29/2014, 11:46 am

Sanderson - I did a little research on the Carbon:Nitrogen question.  This was the best article I found because it actually showed the results of a soil test on the coffee grounds.


http://www.sunset.com/garden/earth-friendly/starbucks-coffee-compost-test

The following information was developed for Sunset by Soil and Plant Laboratory Inc., Bellevue, WA

Carbon/nitrogen ratio: On the basis of dry matter bulk density (452 lbs. per cubic yard), organic matter content (97.7%) and total nitrogen (2.28%), the estimated carbon/nitrogen ratio is about 24:1. This means that there is more than sufficient nitrogen present in the coffee grounds to provide for the nitrogen demand of the soil microorganisms as they degrade the organic fraction.

I also reviewed many other articles that suggested the ratio was approx. 20:1.  That makes them a green.  From what I understand, it is a substitute for those who do not have access to manures.

Here are a few more links


http://extension.oregonstate.edu/lane/sites/default/files/documents/cffee07.pdf

Coffee grounds are an excellent

nitrogen source for composting. They

have a C/N ratio of 20/1. In informal

trials with OSU/Lane County Extension

Service, Compost Specialists sustained

temperatures of 140O-160OF have been

recorded for up to two weeks (when

coffee grounds were 25% of the material

in the compost pile by volume).



http://web.extension.illinois.edu/dmp/palette/110109.html

There is a lot of research-based information available on using coffee grounds in the garden. Research has shown that coffee grounds are about 2% nitrogen by volume, making them a great source of nitrogen for composting. Coffee grounds have been suggested as a safer alternative than using manure in compost piles.

Some sources will declare that because coffee grounds contain nitrogen, a major plant nutrient, this makes coffee grounds a great fertilizer. But just because they contain nitrogen, it does not mean that coffee grounds are suitable for use as a fertilizer as is. Some studies have shown that using uncomposted coffee grounds in high concentrations around plants will actually stunt their growth. The grounds need to break down before they are truly a benefit to plants. The grounds need the help of microorganisms in order to release their nitrogen. Research has shown that using coffee grounds in compost piles tends to help the pile reach higher internal temperature. This is an important step in proper composting which helps kill weed seeds and pathogens that may be present in the pile.

A good rule of thumb for using coffee grounds in the landscape is to either mix them in with existing soil, or in a compost pile mix one part coffee grounds to one part leaves or other dry material plus one part grass clippings or other green material.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  sanderson on 8/29/2014, 12:52 pm

Yolos,  Nice research for coffee grounds in compost piles.  I have used them in various quantities in my first 5 compost piles.  This current one (sobbing , I have to turn it today) does not have any grounds.

General note:  Audrey suggested I describe how I build and work my fast, hot Berkeley piles. I don't have any experience with the slower composting methods that may include slower composting materials such as chipper materials and corn.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  plantoid on 8/29/2014, 4:44 pm

Oh Manure. ! ... well that's the subject of
my post.
 
Don't go too mad on the amount of animal dung & urine soaked bedding in your heap for the urine may be rather strong and can turn you pile acidic  .
The male animals produce the most acidic urine evidently .  If you can get the stuff from grass fed animals it's not a acid as that from those fed concentrates and additives in cattle sheds.
 Bird muck is high nitrogen and high phosphate again the nor natural the diet the less acidic the end product .

Rabbit droppings with or with our beddings is absolutely ace in the compost heap , if used neat without bedding  is marvellous when put  directly onto your beds .

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  sanderson on 8/30/2014, 1:09 am

Plantoid, Good point on different manures in the compost pile. C/N ratios of different manures from the below link:

Cow 10-30
Horse 22-50
Sheep 13-20
Poultry 5-15
Pig 10-20

http://www.norganics.com/applications/cnratio.pdf

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  sanderson on 8/30/2014, 1:14 am

I turned the Berkeley pile tonight in the "cool." The low lighting makes the piles look 'green' but it's all brown and some yellow.


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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  Marc Iverson on 8/30/2014, 3:18 am

Looks like some big pieces there. Are those your corn stalks?

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  sanderson on 8/30/2014, 12:45 pm

No, larger stalks of bedding straw. This is the first time using straw and I'm sure I will have to screen them out of the finished compost. I'll evaluate it later when it's done. I have to turn it at least 2 more times this week, making it 7 turns. I'll keep turning until it no longer heats up, then let it rest or spread it on the front flower beds.

If I had to rate browns for Berkeley piles at this point, I would say small, dry, non-waxy leaves, like my Chinese pistachio and wisteria, are my favorite, with alfalfa hay as #2.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  plantoid on 8/30/2014, 5:03 pm

Try and cover the dampened rebuilt heap with am impermeable plastic sheet to retain both heat and moisture  so it sweats .

Those long straws will then be quickly broken down by rot bacteria  and mould spores.

Last year and on a regular basis about 35 years ago  I  used my pressure washer on half power to  fine soak each layers of my rebuilt heaps  as I rebiult them so as to speed up the take up of water in the material , thus getting it started heating and sweating like mad .

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  yolos on 8/30/2014, 5:49 pm

Is chlorinated water bad for the compost pile.  I have an aerator that can aerate the water and disperse the chlorine but it is a pain in the neck.  I do not have an electrical outlet near the compost pile so I have to aerate the water in the garage and then wheel barrow it out to the garden.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  camprn on 8/30/2014, 7:16 pm

It's fine in my pile.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  plantoid on 8/30/2014, 9:10 pm

Same with me .

The chlorine is negligible after 8 or so  hours of being exposed to air.
Tthat's why you're advised to  prefill buckets of water for watering delicate plants or topping up your cold water fish tank or pond  and let it stand over night with a clean cloth over them to keep out things before using them.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

Post  jimmy cee on 8/30/2014, 10:19 pm

I ceased the workings of compost science.
After carefully reading  and studying 3 great books on compost I now
just toss al I have in a working pile while the other just sits and waits.
Everything I am doing is going along great.
When I aerate a pile 2 days later it's reading 140 deg F in the middle.
Both of my piles have become worm farms, I never added any, however there are zillions.
I find a good variety of material in a nice sized structure with enough water ( I use chlorinated)
along with an occasional stir will suffice...
The books are interesting, gives a great foot hold.

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Re: Compost: Berkeley 18 day [hot] method

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