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Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

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Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  CNida89 on 2/4/2016, 4:42 am

Hello everyone.

Chris here, from Northwest Arkansas. I am a total newbie to gardening, but I have built myself two raised beds that I would like to try and use this growing season.

They aren't real fancy. Instead of building 4x4 boxes, I elected to build two 4x8 boxes so I could grow more things. The boxes are around 8 inches deep.

I am looking to grow some peppers (jalapeno, serrano, cayenne, and maybe some habaneros). Also some cucumbers, lettuce, and some other things, perhaps.

I have a lot of concerns that I was hoping I could shed some light on. Namely... are my beds deep enough to grow what I want? I'm fairly sure they are deep enough to grow peppers (not 100% positive), but I am not so sure about the other things. For example, I was hoping to do some carrots, onions, and maybe even some cabbage.

Also... what about pest control? Whats the best things to use to prevent pests like insects and fungus from dining on my garden before I even get any sort of yield from it? I have heard that a teaspoon of dish soap mixed with water can help, but, I don't want to do anything until I am certain I won't be poisoning my plants, and therefor myself.

One final question - I was thinking of building some covers for them to shield them from heavy winds and rain, using some PVC pipe and plastic sheeting. Will any plastic sheeting do, as long as its transparent? And is covering them going to hurt my yield in any way?

Thank you sincerely for taking time to read this.

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  Scorpio Rising on 2/4/2016, 7:40 am

Wow, Chris, did you come to the right place! Welcome to SFGing! The first thing I would recommend is to go to the library or somehow get your hands on Mel Bartholomew's book ALL NEW Square Foot Gardening 2nd Edition. In that tome you will a lot of great advice and answers to questions you have and don't know you have yet! Also, the archives on this site are a treasure trove of advice as well, use the search box in the upper left hand corner of the page and type your subject.

You have great boxes, and no, they are plenty deep if filled with Mel's Mix, the soilless medium that Mel outlines in the book. There are detailed instructions here as well on how to make your MM. As for pest control, I think a wait and see approach is best. Just using the boxes and MM are a boon to healthy gardening, and just keep an eye on things as the season advances and be pro-active if problems occur! Post here, and pictures are VERY helpful with pests and disease issues.

Covers are great, lots of info here and in the book about those too.

Also highly recommend getting into composting. It is a cheap and easy way to go organic, help your plants and you and the Earth! TONS of info here and all over the Internet on that subject!

Once again, glad you\'re here from Ohio! Keep us posted on your progress!

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  AtlantaMarie on 2/4/2016, 8:27 am

Hi Chris. Welcome from Atlanta, GA! Good for you! And, yes, SR is correct - you're in the right place...

Everything you've listed will work in the depth you've got. Carrots & potatoes COULD benefit from a taller space depending on the variety. You could make a "top hat" in those squares you'll have them in. If you'll enter "top hat" into the search area, you'll find all sorts of posts about those in the archives.

My DH (dear hubby) bought me the stuff to put up some covers for my beds. We'll be using the clear 6 mil plastic you can find at the big box stores. It's actually considered green-house grade. You'll need to make sure that you provide some ventilation during the day so you don't fry your plants. Heat can build up VERY quickly - just like in your car.

The archives will also give you some good advice about bugs, diseases, etc. There's a LOT of hard-won practical info there...

Ask questions, post pictures. We're here help and cheer you on. :-)

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  sanderson on 2/4/2016, 5:03 pm

Chris, Welcome to the Forum from California! glad you\'re here As others have said, yes, read All New Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholomew. Boxes 8" deep are great for 99% of what you want to grow. The 8" lumber is actually only 7 1/2" tall, so you have room for 6-6 1/2" of Mel's Mix, and 1 - 1 1/2" for mulch. The recipe for Mel's Mix will be the most important part of success. We are here to help. Plus, the archives are brimming with info.

For pest control, a net barrier to keep the white butterfly away from the cabbage, kale, broccoli, etc., helps. Joann's Fabric with 50% coupon for bridal tulle or other netting.

I have 3 large spray bottles. One for milk against powdery mildew. One for Dr. Bronner's liquid soap for aphids and other small insects. And a third for Neem oil solution (mix as directed) for the heavy lifting. Some folks use BT for the green worm and the tomato worm.

Yes, ask questions as you go along, and post photos of your startup. Oh, and keep a journal; what works, what didn't, mistakes, and successes. The first year will be your fastest learning curve.

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  yolos on 2/4/2016, 10:30 pm

Here are a couple of pictures as an example of covering for beds.  Tulle for the caterpillars that eat the brassicas and plastic for the cold.

Here is tulle that I use to cover the brassicas in the fall and spring and then squash or something else in the summer.


Then it works real well for plastic to help retain heat in the early spring and late fall.
I used this covering last year to keep the rain from drowning my veggies in the early early spring, then after I planted, I closed up the ends at night to help keep in some heat.

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  CNida89 on 2/5/2016, 9:20 am

Thanks for the great feedback!

For the plastic covering... will any sort of plastic sheeting do? Or do I need some sort of specific plastic?

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  jimmy cee on 2/5/2016, 9:55 am

Don't be concerned about peppers in 6 inches of soil...here's proof.


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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  AtlantaMarie on 2/5/2016, 1:23 pm

Again, I'd have to say the 6 mil type. Anything thinner will probably shred pretty quickly...

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  jimmy cee on 2/5/2016, 1:32 pm

@AtlantaMarie wrote:Again, I'd have to say the 6 mil type.  Anything thinner will probably shred pretty quickly...
 Agreed, 6 ml is preferable, 4 ml if 6 ml isn't  available is ok.
I use both 4 and 6 ml for various applications

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  sanderson on 2/5/2016, 2:32 pm

6 mil in the paint department.  4 mil is easier to handle but doesn't last as long.  Yes, they are both opaque but this is good!

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  yolos on 2/5/2016, 6:11 pm

@jimmy cee wrote:
@AtlantaMarie wrote:Again, I'd have to say the 6 mil type.  Anything thinner will probably shred pretty quickly...
 Agreed, 6 ml is preferable, 4 ml if 6 ml isn't  available is ok.
I use both 4 and 6 ml for various applications
I used 4 mil the first three years until I ran out of the roll I purchased (from Home Depot in the painting supply dept).  Then this last fall I tried 6 mil and it is a little stiffer and a little harder to handle, but not much.  Because it is thicker, it should last a little longer.  What I have not researched is how much more light the 6 mil blocks than the 4 mil.  But by the time I put it over the beds, the daylight length is shorter and not much grows anyway.  But the plastic will help keep some things from freezing for a while.  If it is going to be real cold, I will put a sheet of agribon 19 over the veggies, then top that with the plastic.  It helps a little but it is time consuming if you have to take it off every morning to keep from burning up your plants.  Here in the south, we can go below freezing at night and then it can heat up to 60 + or so degrees on a mild sunny day.  Under the plastic on a sunny day, it can increase the heat as much as 30 degrees inside the tunnel so it must be opened every day.  My advice is to start out with a simple set up and try to add things as you gain experience in your environment.

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  sanderson on 2/5/2016, 8:24 pm

@yolos wrote: My advice is to start out with a simple set up and try to add things as you gain experience in your environment.
I like this. Very Happy

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  CNida89 on 2/6/2016, 1:47 am

Thanks again, tremendously, for the feedback. This weekend I aim to finish building those beds and fill them with Mel's Mix so when spring rolls around, I can start growing immediately. I plan to post pictures of the final product so everyone can see. I am not entirely certain how I will attach the plastic film to the pvc pipe frame, but... I am sure I can figure it out.

Another question. In those pictures posted above by JimmyCee, there are small little jars or something around the base of those plants. What purpose does that serve?

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  sanderson on 2/6/2016, 2:50 am

@CNida89 wrote:Thanks again, tremendously, for the feedback. This weekend I aim to finish building those beds and fill them with Mel's Mix so when spring rolls around, I can start growing immediately. I plan to post pictures of the final product so everyone can see. I am not entirely certain how I will attach the plastic film to the pvc pipe frame, but... I am sure I can figure it out.
Big binder clips are perfect for 1/2" PVC. Post photos of your journey, one square at a time, filling with MM, installing trellises, etc. We love to see gardens develop.

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  jimmy cee on 2/6/2016, 6:53 am

@CNida89 wrote:Thanks again, tremendously, for the feedback. This weekend I aim to finish building those beds and fill them with Mel's Mix so when spring rolls around, I can start growing immediately. I plan to post pictures of the final product so everyone can see. I am not entirely certain how I will attach the plastic film to the pvc pipe frame, but... I am sure I can figure it out.

Another question. In those pictures posted above by JimmyCee, there are small little jars or something around the base of those plants. What purpose does that serve?

I've become accustomed to adding this type of material around my starter plants, protection, water retention was my main objective. It does help somewhat with snails and sowbugs although not  100%.
And it sort of makes me feel good....LOL.
I most likely will keep this going, especially now that I am not adding anything to my beds or plants that will disturb the soil food web.

CNida??? I'm curious about what are you going to do for your compost needs????

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  Scorpio Rising on 2/6/2016, 10:30 am

Jimmy, what are they? Plastic? Open bottoms, do you place the transplant inside them?

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  jimmy cee on 2/6/2016, 10:57 am

@Scorpio Rising wrote:Jimmy, what are they?  Plastic?  Open bottoms, do you place the transplant inside them?  
I ate lots of grapefruit that came in great plastic containers. After cutting the part I wanted this is what I had left...I can't seem to toss out any kind of plastic container that I may be able to use someday..
Here is a better view

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  Scorpio Rising on 2/6/2016, 5:57 pm

Gotcha! 3 or 4 inch diameter? Or smaller?

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  jimmy cee on 2/6/2016, 10:49 pm

@Scorpio Rising wrote:Gotcha!  3 or 4 inch diameter?  Or smaller?

Most always I cannot pick, just save them all, use them as needed..I even do that with wide mouth glass jars...save smaller amounts of paint instead of small amount in a gallon container

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  Kelejan on 2/7/2016, 12:31 am

glad you\'re here  CNida happy hi 
from Kelejan :canada: 

Lots of good advice here.  Mine will be, do not try to do everything in the first year.
Enjoy what you do right, repeat next year and add more and different veggies.  Find out what your family needs for the year and try to grow enough so that you won't regret it when you run out of things you like and you have to start buying from the stores.

E,g.  I love garlic, so over the course of three seasons I have expanded my output and now I know that I will never run out and will have some to share.

When I started, I had two beds 4 x 4 and I was so happy to have kept myself in salads for the complete summer season and also had some extras that I was able to freeze for the winter. I had only grown flowers before that.  I do mix flowers in with the veggies; food for the body and food for the soul.

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  CNida89 on 2/7/2016, 4:46 am

@jimmy cee wrote:
@CNida89 wrote:Thanks again, tremendously, for the feedback. This weekend I aim to finish building those beds and fill them with Mel's Mix so when spring rolls around, I can start growing immediately. I plan to post pictures of the final product so everyone can see. I am not entirely certain how I will attach the plastic film to the pvc pipe frame, but... I am sure I can figure it out.

Another question. In those pictures posted above by JimmyCee, there are small little jars or something around the base of those plants. What purpose does that serve?

I've become accustomed to adding this type of material around my starter plants, protection, water retention was my main objective. It does help somewhat with snails and sowbugs although not  100%.
And it sort of makes me feel good....LOL.
I most likely will keep this going, especially now that I am not adding anything to my beds or plants that will disturb the soil food web.

CNida??? I'm curious about what are you going to do for your compost needs????

Well, I am still undecided on how to tackle the compost issue.

My original plan was to see if I could find anything that was premixed... I know the local Home Depot has the Square Foot Gardening garden soil mix, but its a bit pricey and I haven't heard great stories about using the premixed solutions, so I think I will mix it myself.

As far as compost, I have only seen two varieties in local stores: mushroom compost and a cow manure+compost mix. I was originally just going to use mushroom compost, however I remember that the guidelines for Square Foot Gardening suggest compost from as many different sources as possible, so I may end up grabbing a bit of both. 

Any recommendations on that front would be very much appreciated. Would a single type of compost suffice? Or should I double/triple up on the different types of compost?

Also, I just finished my garden beds today. I didnt manage any great pictures but as soon as the sun comes up, I will take a few pictures and post them for everyone's viewing pleasure, and hopefully, whatever advice can be given on my design.

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  AtlantaMarie on 2/7/2016, 9:02 am

CNIda89, that's EXACTLY what we used when we started. And it doesn't have NEARLY enough nutrients in it to help your heavy feeders! We have not been happy at all with the results. TRUST me, it's not enough!!!!

Check Craigslist to see if anyone nearby is raising animals that you can get hay, dung, etc. Check your local coffee shop for grounds to put in your compost pile.

Check your smaller nursery centers to see what they have. Ours carries chicken manure & several other things.

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  Scorpio Rising on 2/7/2016, 9:46 am

Farmer friends are your best bet, and get started on your own compost pile!  I used the bagged stuff from my Ace Harware, it was OK.  I supplemented it with blood and bone meal, and that seemed enough to get through my first summer with no fatalities!  (Except the varmint related ones Evil or Very Mad ). But Tractor Supply has bags of alfalfa pellets, but again, they are expensive.  I might get some to sprinkle into my pile to heat it up though.  

If your farmers have old piles of barn rake out, it might be ready to directly apply.  Ask them how old it is.  They will know what you are talking about.  Don't want to burn your precious plants!

Best bet:  Make your own, forge ahead with what you have this year, and learn!  It will be infinitely better than what you have experienced before!  Just do it!

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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  jimmy cee on 2/7/2016, 10:12 am

Chris
Is there a recycle center close by, even if you need to travel to get it, very well worth it...They sometime offer compost made from brush, clippings, and leaves. ..with a few additives it makes great compost..I used it for my first year and it was fantastic.
An inexpensive fence is satisfactory, 3 foot x 50 foot are usually available at local garden shops. 3foot square x 3 foot high make a great size for items composting.
Now a few items to use.
your own kitchen waste, (no fats, meats, etc). coffee grinds from local coffee shops, sometimes carrying in a cloth shopping bag helps, discarded groceries from local super markets, be persistent, but not demanding, horse manure, cow manure, chicken manure...all from local sources...mushroom manure, last years leaves, shredded newspaper and cardboard, you may live close to a lake..vegetation from the lower areas. a walk in the woods, pull up the floor and see what that looks like, sawdust, woodchips, chipped trees.   The list goes on and on, depending on where you live can determine much more available items.
Sometimes when imaginations are used that can help lots.
A book on composting, this one is in my opinion the bible of composting, technical, however, easy to understand.
Second pic is my humble but effective compost piles...make at least 2..3 is best, 4 is better.
Above all, don't try to do it all in 1 season, you do have the rest of your life...
3rd pic is if you enjoy reading...this one will amaze you..
Good Luck



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Re: Anyone have tips for a new gardener?

Post  sanderson on 2/7/2016, 2:03 pm

Nida, My first year I used bags of Kellogg's as the compost. Embarassed I had read the ingredients and saw it had over 5 different ingredients, so it must meet Mel's requirements of 5 different sources, right? Wrong. I had to use fertilizer and bagged manures to keep things going until I could make some home made compost.

See, the Kellogg's had wood chips and peat moss so it threw the 1/3 ratios off balance. Wood chips will tie up the available nitrogen. Peat moss doesn't provide any nutrients so you want to limit it to a total of 1/3 of the Mel's Mix. I had to pick out stray rocks, bottle caps and plastics.

Mushroom compost is compost used to grow mushrooms. Nice stuff but you need some manures and other good composts for balanced nutrition. A screen of 1/4" hardware cloth (metal mesh) will help sift out wood and other undesirable items. Take a look at the municipal waste compost. It may be something you have to use as part of the mixed compost. Local worm castings (in small amounts) and aged manure (in large amounts) on Craig's List. Crab meal (small amounts) online. Just do your best.

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