Square Foot Gardening Forum

Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.


Search
 
 

Display results as :
 

 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» Happy Birthday!!
by Scorpio Rising Yesterday at 11:31 pm

» Anyone out there tried crosne tubers?
by Scorpio Rising Yesterday at 11:00 pm

» N&C Midwest: December 2016
by Scorpio Rising Yesterday at 10:28 pm

» New England, December 2016
by Scorpio Rising Yesterday at 10:19 pm

» Mid-South: December 2016
by yolos Yesterday at 5:57 pm

» TrolleyDriver's Compost Thermometer
by trolleydriver Yesterday at 5:21 pm

» CANADIAN REGION: What are you doing December 2016
by trolleydriver Yesterday at 5:12 pm

» Tomato Tuesday 2016
by AtlantaMarie Yesterday at 4:41 pm

» Holy snow Batman!
by donnainzone5 Yesterday at 12:13 pm

» Butterfly Junction
by countrynaturals Yesterday at 11:44 am

» Garlic: Freeze, thaw, and heave
by camprn Yesterday at 7:05 am

» Garbanzo (Chickpeas, Cicer arietinum) and Kidney Beans
by BeetlesPerSqFt 12/7/2016, 11:28 pm

» Northern California & Coastal Valleys - What are you doing this month?
by countrynaturals 12/7/2016, 10:43 pm

» What are you eating from your garden today?
by Scorpio Rising 12/7/2016, 9:43 pm

» Second Year SFG in Canada
by trolleydriver 12/7/2016, 9:41 pm

» CHALLENGE - Smallest possible footprint
by Kelejan 12/7/2016, 5:19 pm

» GF Collard Greens, Kale Recipes
by BeetlesPerSqFt 12/7/2016, 12:49 pm

» 2016 SFG in Brooks, Ga
by sanderson 12/7/2016, 11:48 am

» Bon fires on the Levee
by Cajun Cappy 12/6/2016, 12:17 pm

» Mid-Atl - Dec 2016 - Seed Catalog ?
by Scorpio Rising 12/5/2016, 10:24 pm

» Gardening in Central Pennsylvania
by Scorpio Rising 12/5/2016, 10:21 pm

» 1st Seed Catalog Arrived :)
by Scorpio Rising 12/5/2016, 10:15 pm

» Amaranth
by countrynaturals 12/5/2016, 12:06 pm

» Live and learn
by jimmy cee 12/5/2016, 9:08 am

» AtlantaMarie's Garden
by countrynaturals 12/4/2016, 2:04 pm

» Mychorrhizae Fungi
by audrey.jeanne.roberts 12/4/2016, 1:28 pm

» December 2016 Avatar: Show your Winter Season Colors!
by Scorpio Rising 12/3/2016, 11:17 pm

» SFG not giving the results I expected
by No_Such_Reality 12/3/2016, 7:21 pm

» New Member
by trolleydriver 12/3/2016, 4:14 pm

» First season SFG results / lessons learned
by countrynaturals 12/3/2016, 10:36 am

Google

Search SFG Forum

Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  has55 on 8/2/2016, 6:15 am






has55

Posts : 1360
Join date : 2012-05-10
Location : Denton, tx

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  has55 on 9/26/2016, 6:49 pm

WHAT “COVER CROPS” COULD HOME GARDENERS CONSIDER IN THE FALL?

has55

Posts : 1360
Join date : 2012-05-10
Location : Denton, tx

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  trolleydriver on 9/26/2016, 6:58 pm

@has55 wrote:WHAT “COVER CROPS” COULD HOME GARDENERS CONSIDER IN THE FALL?
Wow this is timely. I was thinking the same thing earlier today and actually searched a few websites. For my SFG boxes I have decided to just put a layer of leaves on top rather than grow a cover crop. One reason is that I think it is too late for me to start a cover crop (we already had a light frost).

____________________________

Ottawa, Canada
Find more about Weather in Ottawa, CA
Click for weather forecast

trolleydriver

Forum Moderator

Male Posts : 2199
Join date : 2015-05-04
Age : 69
Location : Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  has55 on 9/26/2016, 10:19 pm

@trolleydriver wrote:
@has55 wrote:WHAT “COVER CROPS” COULD HOME GARDENERS CONSIDER IN THE FALL?
Wow this is timely. I was thinking the same thing earlier today and actually searched a few websites. For my SFG boxes I have decided to just put a layer of leaves on top rather than grow a cover crop. One reason is that I think it is too late for me to start a cover crop (we already had a light frost).
I believe you're right. spring may be your timing. At that garden class taught by heather Rinaldi she said fave beans and Austrian Field Peas can handle the frost. this may apply hare in texas. 
Austrian winter peas (black peas), Canadian field peas (spring peas) 
Type: summer annual and winter annual legume 

Field Peas

I'm posting just a little info, the rest on that link.
Winter-hardy types of field peas, especially Austrian winter peas, can withstand temperatures as low as 10° F with only minor injury, but they don’t overwinter consistently in areas colder than moderate Hardiness Zone 6. They are sensitive to heat, particularly in combination with humidity. They tend to languish in mid-summer even in the cool Northeast (361), where average summers have fewer than 30 days exceeding 86° F. Temperatures greater than 90° F cause flowers to blast and reduce seed yield. On humus-rich black soils, field peas will produce abundant viny growth with few seed pods.

has55

Posts : 1360
Join date : 2012-05-10
Location : Denton, tx

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  yolos on 9/26/2016, 11:21 pm

I usually plant Austrian Winter Peas in the fall.  They withstand hard freezes but do not grow much once the weather gets real cold.  But they will really take off just as soon as the weather begins to turn warmer. This year I am going to try Mustard because it is supposed to fight some bad microbes.  I have Southern Blight in my soil and hope the Mustard will help suppress it.  

I always plant Buckwheat when I have a bed that will not be used for a while.  This year I planted Buckwheat on 8/13 and it was ready to turn under on 9/9.  I did not turn it under yet because I have been waiting for it to set seeds so I can harvest them to use next year.  The seeds are just now starting to mature so I will be harvesting all of them within a week or two.

yolos

Female Posts : 2860
Join date : 2011-11-20
Age : 66
Location : Brooks, Ga Zone 7B/8A

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  jimmy cee on 9/27/2016, 10:21 am

Last fall I added rye grain to all of my beds. Laid down an ample amount of seeds and it grew all winter. Root systems were enormous, so much so that I panicked when spring arrived, however within 2 weeks of ripping it all out the roots left were gone.
This season I am going with rye again, with some buckwheat in my containers.
The rye will grow ans stay green throughout winter, even under snow.








jimmy cee

Certified SFG Instructor

Male Posts : 1848
Join date : 2013-02-16
Age : 81
Location : Indiana PA....zone 5

View user profile http://www.jcjigs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  has55 on 9/27/2016, 12:10 pm

when you're ready to get rid of the rye, cut it to the bare ground or 1/4-/12 beneath the soil. the roots will decompose and create great fungal food. Jimmy Cee or anyone,  is there a small tool that will cut simple crop at or beneath the surface?

has55

Posts : 1360
Join date : 2012-05-10
Location : Denton, tx

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  trolleydriver on 9/27/2016, 12:26 pm

I had to look up the difference between ryegrass and rye grain.

http://ryegrasscovercrop.com/portfolio-view/arggrowin/

____________________________

Ottawa, Canada
Find more about Weather in Ottawa, CA
Click for weather forecast

trolleydriver

Forum Moderator

Male Posts : 2199
Join date : 2015-05-04
Age : 69
Location : Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  sanderson on 9/27/2016, 8:18 pm

@has55 wrote:when you're ready to get rid of the rye, cut it to the bare ground or 1/4-/12 beneath the soil. the roots will decompose and create great fungal food. Jimmy Cee or anyone,  is there a small tool that will cut simple crop at or beneath the surface?
An old kitchen knife that can be resharpened. I have a knife I use but usually on out-of-bed weeds!

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Fresno, CA
Click for weather forecast

sanderson

Forum Administrator

Female Posts : 12277
Join date : 2013-04-21
Age : 68
Location : Fresno CA Zone 8-9

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  jimmy cee on 9/27/2016, 9:39 pm

@has55 wrote:when you're ready to get rid of the rye, cut it to the bare ground or 1/4-/12 beneath the soil. the roots will decompose and create great fungal food. Jimmy Cee or anyone,  is there a small tool that will cut simple crop at or beneath the surface?
Last season I became awfully upset at the root systems, being I was exposed to tree roots a few years back. I pulled lots out, however I then found within 2 weeks, what roots were left ( and there were many ) decomposed away leaving my beds free to plant. Next spring I will just do it a bit earlier and use garden shears to cut the grass off at ground level.


jimmy cee

Certified SFG Instructor

Male Posts : 1848
Join date : 2013-02-16
Age : 81
Location : Indiana PA....zone 5

View user profile http://www.jcjigs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  jimmy cee on 9/27/2016, 9:45 pm

@trolleydriver wrote:I had to look up the difference between ryegrass and rye grain.

http://ryegrasscovercrop.com/portfolio-view/arggrowin/
I've been using the cereal rye, which my dealer calls rye grain. At about $ 1.25 per lb I like it.
This article you linked to was very informative, thank you TD.

jimmy cee

Certified SFG Instructor

Male Posts : 1848
Join date : 2013-02-16
Age : 81
Location : Indiana PA....zone 5

View user profile http://www.jcjigs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  has55 on 10/29/2016, 12:23 pm

@jimmy cee wrote:
@trolleydriver wrote:I had to look up the difference between ryegrass and rye grain.

http://ryegrasscovercrop.com/portfolio-view/arggrowin/
I've been using the cereal rye, which my dealer calls rye grain. At about $ 1.25 per lb I like it.
This article you linked to was very informative, thank you TD.
I'm going to add some cereal rye around the plants that benefit from miccorhizae. one or two seeds here and there. this will be my cover crop. I added some peas to it own space. today I chop and drop some of the top part of the peas. they already touching  the netting. i need to raise it, but have not had time. will do soon, then maybe I can have some peas too. some of  them, I will just keep cutting to keep the root alive, but not harvest. same with the rye. I just got my seeds in for using in the empty beds for spring preparation. 
Question-Jimmied cee,
the peppers you showed to us earlier this season was the rye grass in the beds first?
2. the netting I'm using I got the name of it from you and ordered from joann. it very durable. it not tulle. it got damage from the tornados that hit my area may 2015. it still going strong. do you recall it's name?

here's some pics of my peas. they're producing nodules for the nitrogen fixation and have some good length on the roots.

before harvest, peas behind pal choi










has55

Posts : 1360
Join date : 2012-05-10
Location : Denton, tx

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  jimmy cee on 10/29/2016, 12:33 pm

Question-Jimmied cee,
the peppers you showed to us earlier this season was the rye grass in the beds first?
2. the netting I'm using I got the name of it from you and ordered from joann. it very durable. it not tulle. it got damage from the tornados that hit my area may 2015. it still going strong. do you recall it's name?



Hass55


Yes to the rye grain in that pepper bed last fall, I placed  rye seeds in the fall of 2015, they grew nicely, I will work mybeds to cut and turn over lightly a month before planting time next season. May not need to month, however, it will make me feel better.

Fabric is called ( utility fabric )
http://www.joann.com/mesh-white/1948439.html

I just looked and it's $2.79 per yard now, with some coupons if eligible could have a great price.
That material can be stitched also, I've joined seems with cord.

Just received a coupon from Joanna for 60% off, this is best. Bring that price down to $1.60 per yard.
Today only...( saturday )

jimmy cee

Certified SFG Instructor

Male Posts : 1848
Join date : 2013-02-16
Age : 81
Location : Indiana PA....zone 5

View user profile http://www.jcjigs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  has55 on 10/30/2016, 4:12 am

thank you for the info.

has55

Posts : 1360
Join date : 2012-05-10
Location : Denton, tx

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  sanderson on 10/31/2016, 4:21 am

Just a little sharing, here. My aggie friend recommended not using "grasses" due to the root density. I think that was the reason. Any how, he recommends a mix of seeds, some narrow and deep, some shallow and broad rooted.

____________________________

Find more about Weather in Fresno, CA
Click for weather forecast

sanderson

Forum Administrator

Female Posts : 12277
Join date : 2013-04-21
Age : 68
Location : Fresno CA Zone 8-9

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  has55 on 10/31/2016, 5:27 am

@sanderson wrote:Just a little sharing, here.  My aggie friend recommended not using "grasses" due to the root density.  I think that was the reason.  Any how, he recommends a mix of seeds, some narrow and deep, some shallow and broad rooted.

Thanks Sanderson, for the suggestion.
Obviously, I like cutting into new pathway that cut down our expanses , but increase the results with our plants.  after watching the video from the leaf mold/compost versus Back to Eden video, I change my mind somewhat about the grasses. I don't remember which video, but it's not # 1 or #2. possibly not #3,4. not sure. but in one of the videos he just using hairy vetch with tomatoes I believe and grasses with peppers. He open the ground so we could see the result on miccorhizae, which causes the roots to share the water, bacteria and fungi, etc. the massive roots were not a problem.  This was  a different concept to accept until I visually saw it.
 I bought a mixed seed package that I'm going to plant tomorrow.[url=Peaceful Valley Organic Premium Soil Builder Mix - Raw Seed]Peaceful Valley Organic Premium Soil Builder Mix - Raw Seed[/url]
 It fits the suggestion of your aggie friend. Currently the mix contains: Bell Beans, Biomaster or 4010 Peas, Purple Vetch, Hairy Vetch, Common Vetch and Cayuse or Monida Oats.

I do believe the grasses will be a problem with the non miccorhizae plants, so I going to scattered lightly different seeds, mainly some wheat and rye, but they will be one or two seeds  here and there. may also try some winter peas.

this is an experiment of taking the idea down to the SFG beds. will post result. if it works it will be great, because it takes no time to plant a seed here and there.
This is not about preventing erosion, break up the soil, preventing weeds, because we don't have those problems with SFG. but increasing organic matter, nutrient cycling, nitrogen fixation, attracting beneficial insects, nematodes control and miccorhizae fungi growth is a great goal, if it can be achieved by simply adding some seeds to our beds.
we'll see how it goes.
Patrick on one yard revolution, youtube channel is doing it now with good results. The difference is Patrick doesn't show what happens below the soil and the other guy is dedicated of teaching by visual proof what happening.
also, I'm going to try the self reseeding of my greens beds into the spring. will see how it goes.

has55

Posts : 1360
Join date : 2012-05-10
Location : Denton, tx

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  jimmy cee on 10/31/2016, 8:36 am

@sanderson wrote:Just a little sharing, here.  My aggie friend recommended not using "grasses" due to the root density.  I think that was the reason.  Any how, he recommends a mix of seeds, some narrow and deep, some shallow and broad rooted.

This sounds like a great idea. I heard of cover crops last year, just found one or two and went with it..Some good input here is going to make me investigate this topic further. In any event, I sure love looking at the green all winter, at least when I'm able to sit out near the garden.. My deck is close to the garden, when fall close into winter I change things around and half close it in, a roof over head gives me to opportunity to enjoy being outside when winter takes breaks.
I'll sit there with coffee or hot chocolate in hand thinking about the next season..

jimmy cee

Certified SFG Instructor

Male Posts : 1848
Join date : 2013-02-16
Age : 81
Location : Indiana PA....zone 5

View user profile http://www.jcjigs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  llama momma on 10/31/2016, 11:42 am

For any new members, cover crops are not a necessary step.  Mel simplified the process for us.  The Square Foot Gardening technique is so complete that I would call cover cropping a labor of love and an extra curricular activity. The magic is in the compost and Mel's Mix as described in his book.

llama momma

Certified SFG Instructor

Female Posts : 4642
Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 59
Location : Central Ohio zone 6a

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  jimmy cee on 10/31/2016, 3:52 pm

@llama momma wrote:For any new members, cover crops are not a necessary step.  Mel simplified the process for us.  The Square Foot Gardening technique is so complete that I would call cover cropping a labor of love and an extra curricular activity.  The magic is in the compost and Mel's Mix as described in his book.

You said it all...All in the compost.
If I had it to do over, I would learn composting first, a most rewarding task.

jimmy cee

Certified SFG Instructor

Male Posts : 1848
Join date : 2013-02-16
Age : 81
Location : Indiana PA....zone 5

View user profile http://www.jcjigs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  llama momma on 10/31/2016, 3:58 pm

@jimmy cee wrote:
@llama momma wrote:For any new members, cover crops are not a necessary step.  Mel simplified the process for us.  The Square Foot Gardening technique is so complete that I would call cover cropping a labor of love and an extra curricular activity.  The magic is in the compost and Mel's Mix as described in his book.

You said it all...All in the compost.
If I had it to do over, I would learn composting first, a most rewarding task.

Thank you Jimmy for being you and so understanding.  I didn't mean to squash any enthusiasm on your part or anyone else's.  I just try to express retaining the simple yet powerful teachings of Mel!

llama momma

Certified SFG Instructor

Female Posts : 4642
Join date : 2010-08-20
Age : 59
Location : Central Ohio zone 6a

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  plantoid on 10/31/2016, 5:19 pm

The funny thing is that many of us longer term ANSFG adherents know that Mel's system works anywhere in the world , it's as cheap as you can get especially if you make a decent amount of home made compost ( Not Mel's starter / initial kick starting mix ) prior to setting up your square foot beds for you can use the quality home made compost neat it has enough drainage , moisture retention  & nutrients on its own.

I've followed these reinvention of the wheel things/ ideas many times , again & again non come anywhere near to Mel's proven idea's .

Even after 40 or so years of row gardening  & the last 18 or so following and eventually fully implementing everything in Mel's last  ANSFG book ( when I joined the site ) , where we now use a non mother earth soil growth medium , I don't see any improvements happening over what Mel said .

I've reread all his three main books many , many times over , some pages , I could almost repeat verbatim . Yet I'm still discovering little gems that had previously eluded me ,  It's like Mel's popped back and inserted a few more interesting & useful lines whilst I'm asleep .

 Honest guys & gals it's a complete system , you don't need other books , you Tube clips  one sided arguments  etc etc. or any additional expenditure of money or a lot of extra hard work energy once you get the system up & going for a couple of years .

So long as you read the manual shown in my strap line time & time again , so you start to understand what Mel has really said you'll not go wrong .

plantoid

Male Posts : 3636
Join date : 2011-11-09
Age : 65

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  jimmy cee on 10/31/2016, 9:58 pm

Plantoid ...

An excellent statement

jimmy cee

Certified SFG Instructor

Male Posts : 1848
Join date : 2013-02-16
Age : 81
Location : Indiana PA....zone 5

View user profile http://www.jcjigs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  has55 on 11/1/2016, 9:18 am

I wholly agreed with what llama and planetoid have to say. this research and development project/experiment is only for people who like tinkering with new ideas. The the ANSFG is sufficient and complete. the R&D Journey is for us tinkerers only. Like working on a car, boat, kitchen appliance etc... It addresses the what if... is there something more curiosity within some of us or have we arrives at all the knowledge we can have in this field. It like saying "all the gold in the world is in China". I wondered is that true?

Thanks Sanderson for changing the name. This thread was started before I realized I needed to separate the name from SFG to prevent confusion. Let the experiments continue. To infinity and beyond.

has55

Posts : 1360
Join date : 2012-05-10
Location : Denton, tx

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Has55's Research Journey-Cover crops

Post  Sponsored content Today at 12:47 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum