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Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  sanderson on 5/8/2017, 3:33 am

You have really done a lot of quality work on the beds and gates. It looks like the beds are part of fencing-in the back yard. ?? Can you take a photo from both sides standing back a ways so that I can see it in total? I get a little seasick watching home videos but I want to make sure I understand your layout. Thanks

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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/8/2017, 10:39 am




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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/8/2017, 10:48 am

For sure Sanderson. The beds are indeed a part of the fencing of the back yard. they are infact the only thing seperating most of the back yard from the patio.   That is the reason i ended up moving the bed from the center of the yard and H shaped to its currently 3x9 + 3x9x6 foot areas.    When sis and bro took up my offer to move in with me, i knew they had a dog. i knew i didnt want that dog on a chain in the yard..  So i combined the fence-building with not wanting to have to level a good chunk of the back yard to make the garden wheelchair accessible and what you see in the last video and the pictures above here is the end result.

The middle gate is secured to two 4x4s that are connected to the garden and leveled.
The garage gate is only secured to the garden. not the garage yet.  need to dig and place that last 4x4 for it today before we put last coat (FINALLYYYY!!!!!!!!!!) on the bridge and get that out in the back yard today.(will not be physically connected to garage just next to it. (so no permit needed either)
The garden-house fence is secured to the garden but not the house.(so its still technically freestanding and no permit needed)   

IF my math is correct I have 27 squares on the left and (27+18)45 squares on the right.. for 72 squares.  Ill know for sure by the end of the week as get the MM in.   

No worries about seasickness, i was in the navy so.. had the yard the yard been moving like the ocean.. camera woulda been still and level.. but on the solid ground i have some slight tremors so cant hold it steady.

Edit: All in all i am super happy with the work.  As i say that though, I see all the flaws, the points where the wire doesnt exactly line up, the places where i had to use leather twine to secure it so its level and square..   My dad, my brother in law, girlfriend, even neighbor whos super critical about the yard and market value of things are all very impressed.  

Its my first time ever attempting anything like this at all, so im super critical about the flaws and just kinda going Mehh its stable and hasnt fallen over or exploded yet..

  I had some youtube videos that i used as a guide/ semi-template   but the size is different then mine as is the layout.   So basically i built this from scratch not really knowing what i was doing.   With carpentry in my blood on both biological, and dads addopted side so all three of my family lines have carpenters in them..  But ive build 1 shelf 4'x10'2" long x 5' tall, before this in my 39 years.. ive only carved pinewood derby cars or build.. like hunting stands.


Last edited by Greenbeard on 5/8/2017, 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added little more.)
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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  trolleydriver on 5/8/2017, 10:49 am

Now that is a thing of beauty.  


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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/8/2017, 11:50 am

Thanks Trolleydriver Very Happy
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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  sanderson on 5/8/2017, 1:35 pm

@trolleydriver wrote:Now that is a thing of beauty.  

Yes, it is. Thank you for the still photos. Wink

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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/11/2017, 12:32 pm

Your welcome Smile


Now is the crazy math part..   Figuring out how much of what to get to fill the beds.

As of right now Ive got measurements from top of the wood pickets (sideways boards) to top of the fill inside.

Starting with the Eastern (garage/house corner) Bed.
Point A 09.25"
Point B 08.50"
Point C 08.00"
Point D 10.50"
Point E 10.25" (gate corner)
Point F 11.00"
Point G 11.00"
Point H 11.00"

Starting with the Western Bed (path/house corner)

Point I: 10.50"(walkway/house corner)
Point J: 10.50"
Point K: 11.50"
Point L: 11.50"
Point M: 11.50"(patio/house corner)
Point N: 11.00"(fence/house corner)
Point O: 11.50"
Point P: 10.25"
Point Q: 09.50"(farthest from start)
Point R: 10.00"
Point S: 11.00"
Point T: 10.50"(gate corner)

Thankfully each box is perfectly square at 9 square feet (108 sq inches) so that part of the math is easy.  

The hard part for me is should i get more fill to level it off totally before filling or try and figure out the math for each box and add up the sections..  while i attempt to figure out the math. ill show ya all what im working with.

Box 1: A-B-G-H } average 9.9375"  ~7.46 cubic feet
Box 2: B-C-F-G } average 9.625" ~ 7.22 cubic feet
Box 3: C-D-E-F } average 9.9375" ~7.46 cubic feet
Section 1: 22.14 Cubic Feet

Box 4: I-J-S-T } average 10.625" ~  7.97 cubic feet
Box 5: J-K-R-S } average 10.75" ~ 8.07 cubic feet
Box 6: K-P-Q-R } average 10.3125" ~7.74 cubic feet
Box 7: K-L-O-P } average 10.75" ~ 8.07 cubic feet
Box 8: L-M-N-O } average 11.375" ~ 8.54 cubic feet
Section 2: 40.39 Cubic Feet


Total Cubic Feet needed: 62.53 cubic feet.. ~21 cubic yards.


Last edited by Greenbeard on 5/11/2017, 12:48 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Math)
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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/11/2017, 1:47 pm

63 Cubic Feet

That sure makes the math easy..21/21/21 cu feet

Have home depot store credit still so limiting shopping to HD until that card is empty.

-5 bags of sunshine brand peat moss 15 cu feet of compressed should expand ~22.5 cu feet..
-11 bags of Vigoro brand vermiculite = 22 Cubic Feet (I dont want to spend the time hunting for course..)

-"Compost"
...This part.. i used what i had made over the winter as fill.. so ive got nothing on hand and need to buy or find a place local giving away some..  I can make sawdust easy enough plenty of boards left over.. but my compost pile is just charcoal from a couple fires and some dirt mixed up, alot more char then anything else.

Suggestions?  so many in that forum its a tad overwhelming..

Am i doing something wrong though.. the price of this fill is working out to be almost as much as the cost for the wood was..  im at 265 without any compost in the cart, with coconut/worm/and just dirt im close to 400ish..  I cant seem to find cow or chicken or steer or anything poop wise at Home Depot, Fleet Farm or Menards..  either sold out or discontinued.  the only people i know with chickens already have someone they sell the poop too.   I do know a guy with a horse.. but should i bring horse poop home and compost it?
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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Robbomb116 on 5/11/2017, 4:01 pm

From my experience, the Mel's mix is definitely more expensive than the wood to build the boxes. The most expensive part of the mix generally being the vermiculite.

The numbers you listed for cost seem to be reasonably accurate I'm afraid. The good news is this is a one time cost for the most part! You won't need to add any more vermiculite or peat moss in the future, just some compost.
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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  RoOsTeR on 5/12/2017, 2:50 pm

Cost. There are many ways to cut costs. One of them is to start small. You would be amazed at what you can grow in a single 4x4 bed compared to conventional gardening. If you go big at the beginning and don't make your own compost, of course you pocket book is going to take a big hit.
There are ways to make things much cheaper. Like Mel suggest, start small. Know if you plan on purchasing everything, it will be expensive. It doesn't need to be!

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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  sanderson on 5/12/2017, 3:01 pm

A cubic yard is 27 cu. ft., 3' x 3' x 3'. 62 cubic feet = 2.33 cu. yards.

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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  sanderson on 5/12/2017, 3:34 pm

Starting at the beginning.  Eight beds of 3' x 3' = 8 beds x 9 sq ft  = 72 sq ft.

Filling each with 8" of Mel's Mix (2/3 of a foot or 0.67 of a foot = 2/3 foot deep x 72 sq ft = 48 cu. ft. of MM.

48 cu. ft. with 1/3 each of compost, fluffed peat moss and vermiculite means 48 cu. ft. / 3 = 16 cu. ft. of each product:

Buy +8 cu. ft. of compressed peat moss and fluff it up to 16 cu. ft.
Buy 16 cu. ft. of vermiculite
Buy or locate a little more of 3 cu. ft each of 5 different composts = 16

16 + 16 + 16 = 48 cu. feet spread at 8" of MM will now fill all of the squares.

I am more worried about the lower fill as it is composed of rough organic material. This will slowly break down and lower the level of fill, probably to half its current height! Shocked I would wash in sand, gravel or clean top soil. Spread a layer, wash in, repeat. Buy a cheap roll of 3' chicken wire to place on top, then 4' wide commercial grade weed fabric, bringing it 6" up the sides so you don't lose any MM down into the fill.

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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/13/2017, 1:48 pm

i dont wanna use any sand or gravel. the native soil here is somewhat sandy. initial owner/builder brought in 4 dump trucks worth of black earth as the initial fill on the yard, so its already been de-sanded basically.  

Dirt though, topsoil i could do..  the whole goal of the fill is that when the garden rots ill have a bunch of composted soil i can spread in the yard. that hemp fill though is pretty solid, little squishy like peat.. but i did pack it in as tight as i could. 

I actually found 2 rolls of this wire in the picture, up in the car garage rafters under some carpets that were up there that i got down
.  I was planning on doing a layer of this ontop of the fill. before using Vigoro weedblock diamond i got.. have 2.6 rolls of 6'x50' and some scraps.   worked great between the beds.  barefoot my feet bottoms stay dry when i stand above it.. no pooling of water.   a little pooling under the bridge where its not pulled taut and whatnot.

We got the bridge in place, still need to get the path finished.. but thats waiting a couple of weeks, as my back is sore and i dont wanna dig right now..

The reason was doing deeper then 6" is im not building Up at all and well im growing carrots and wanna be able to place them wherever.  as is its only 331/500  i have budgeted for the fill, i just was a little shocked as it is over a grand on this couple of projects.   im still in budget, just crazy how accurate my guess before starting was.

Should i just do like the eastern/3 section area as the deeper and bring the bigger side up to 6" below?
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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/21/2017, 12:22 pm

Little bit of an update.   Its been raining since friday, will continue to rain this coming week except for 20% tuesday, 20% thurs, 10% friday.

On Thursda 18May, i filled the smaller bed.
First lining it with the roll of chickenwire and stapling that to the boards, then adding the landscaping cloth.   For my fill i used 2 bags of peat moss, 3cu' each. (no clue what they fluffed up to), 3 bags of vermiculite, 2cu each. (got 3 more bag but the MM looked like thirds w 6cu feet in it.  then finally i mixed in 1 cu foot of cedar chips, 3 cu foot of sheep poop compost, 3 cu feet of chicken poop compost, 3 cu foot of kow poop compost, 2 half filled black yard garbage bags of compost from at my folks (about 4 cu feet)

Tossed it all around with pitch fork and snow shovels for a couple hours then filled the bed..  zero extra left over.  beds about 1" shy of being filled to top of wood.   Im OK with that.

We planted as well in this bed.
Row 1  (yard side) Sweet 100 Tom, Green Pepper, White Potatoes, Eggplant, 2 red potatoes, 1 cabbage, Jalapeno, 6penny grape toms, hungarian pepper, beefstake toms

Row 2 (middle) all 9 squares are 4 red potatoes.

Row 3 (house side) beefstake, green peppers, john bear toms, green pepper, unknown tomatoes, jalapano, 6 penny grape tom, jalapano, john bear.

If i did my research right.. all these will grow roughly the same height cept for the cabbage square.    If i did it wrong, Ill have notes to go back to do it right next time.
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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/23/2017, 5:22 pm



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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  sanderson on 5/24/2017, 3:33 am

You did it!!

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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  trolleydriver on 5/24/2017, 7:05 am

@sanderson wrote:You did it!!  
+1 

Well done.

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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/24/2017, 11:23 am

Thanks Smile

Looks like almost all of those plants are good where they are at.   
the Hybrid 100 will grow 8-12 feet.. So im gonna move it out and to a seperate location.
Everything else grows either 30 or 40" tall.    I need to swap 2 plants so everything on the south side (away from house) is shorter then everything in middle or close to house.. so things dont get shadowed.
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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Turan on 5/24/2017, 1:35 pm

I have really enjoyed watching this proceed through the planning stages to planting. Well done!

A thought on the Hybrid 100 tomato. I have often topped tall growing tomatoes at 4-5 feet. It will put out more branches and produce more that way. Or is it possible to let it grow over and trail down the out side of your garden perimeter fence?

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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/24/2017, 2:39 pm

Thank you Turan, im glad i could provide some entertainment for you.   Im glad the "fence" was and is entertaining to watch.  Ive enjoyed building it.  Blood, sweat, tears, prayers, anger and love.. whole lotta love put into this thing.  (then i filled it with poop.. Razz)

I giggle so hard about the compost w manure..   all that hard work building it, leveling it, redoing parts.. only to fill it with poop, not fresh.. but still giggle worthy.. Im a big kid Smile

Last vegies i grew were back in the 90s in a greenhouse.  ive grown grapes and raspberries.  ive got grapes at my folks ive been watching over for a couple decades..  raspberries about 5 or 6 years now.

by Topping tall growing tomatoes, do you mean just cut the top off at X height?   

does the Hybrid part of it means its been genetically modified?

it would be possible to let the tomatoes grow over the side.. but then   i couldnt remove the sides.. Though that 100 tom is over by the gate.. it could grow over the east side.. that portion of the fence is locked down and not movable..   They couldnt spread too far if they grew to the ground.. as ive gotta get the lawn mower thru the gate over there.   

Picture of that side view will posted in reply in a few minutes.  phones charging in the house.
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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/24/2017, 4:36 pm

Instead of doing a video tour of whats growing in the back. Im going to just upload some photos.   Starting with the side where that hybrid 100 (that i learned is not a modified plant) is growing.  so you can what i mean about not much space being there for it to hang over.

I know what the dandylions are.. and im pretty sure its milkweed growing also in a couple of these pictures.  far as the tall bushes w yellow flowers, or the shorter shrubs along the house.. No idea.
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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/24/2017, 4:39 pm

Now its some stuff that is growing under the pines in the back..  IF any can help me ID what the stuff is so i know whats living with me here.. i would be very thankful.















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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/24/2017, 4:45 pm

This is shorter.   First off is where the compost will be going in at, behind the garage.

And then a couple shots of the tall shurbs, and short bushes growing along the fence or beside the house..

And the beds ill be filling tomorrow, or the next day.







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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Turan on 5/25/2017, 12:39 am

@Greenbeard wrote: by Topping tall growing tomatoes, do you mean just cut the top off at X height?   does the Hybrid part of it means its been genetically modified?

I have been known to just cut the top off.
When we prune a tomato to only one stem one of plants reactions is to grow longer. To keep an indeterminate tomato shorter, treat it like a determinate tomato and don't prune it much. You need to prune to keep it within bounds. Pruning can help push it to ripen fruit. So try to time your pruning to tell it to ripen fruit. Do you have room to the sides for it to fill a couple spare squares?

Hybrid doesn't mean genetically modified. They are often best for us wh push the boundaries of where some plants can grow. I find hybrid peppers do much better for me than OP ones especially.

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Re: Bryan Greenbeard of Minnesota's 2017 Plans

Post  Greenbeard on 5/25/2017, 1:02 am

i could move stuff about.  but no spare squares at the now...

.. gonna fill other stuff tomorrow.  still not totally decided on plants beyond the other two peppers and some strawberries.

I was going to pick up some small cages tomorrow for the tom's and peps to grow within and along.   plan was to trim them up when they grew outside their cages.   no spare squares.. should i have accounted for that.. i didnt see anything in either the sfg book for the sfg q/a book bout giving things an extra square.


Last edited by Greenbeard on 5/25/2017, 1:25 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : hit submit too soon)
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