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beginners vragen

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beginners vragen

Post  IndustriousIris on 3/14/2010, 2:18 pm

Hallo,

Ik ben nieuw op dit forum en met SFG. Ik hoop dat mijn post idd in het Nederlandse deel terecht komt, het is niet helemaal duidelijk dit forum....
Mijn situatie is als volgt, ik heb een volkstuin van 100m2 (5x20m) sinds vorig jaar. Het is een kweekkwekerij op super natte, zware klei. De tuin is erg ongelijk, veel diepliggende delen die dus opgehoogd moeten worden. Voordat ik met SFG in aanraking kwam, was ik al van plan met verhoogde bedden te gaan werken van 1,20 x 1,20m of 1,20 x 2,40 een een aantal voor hagen van 60cm. breed. Behalve 1-jarige groenten ed. wil ik ook wat (klein)fruit gaan kweken. Daarom o.a. is het toch nodig eerst het kweek eruit te werken.
Ik kom op 7 bakken van 1,20 x 2,40 en 5 van 1,20 x 1,20 de rest worden vaste struiken en bomen.
Ik heb een paar vragen waarop jullie hopelijk een antwoord hebben:
Gebruiken jullie van dat geweven worteldoek in de bodem van de bak?
Mijn bezwaren daartegen zijn dat teneerst kweek daar vaak gewoon dwarsdoorheengroeit, ik heb het gezien! Bovendien is het plastic en dat bevat doorgaans pcb's die dus aan je grond worden afgegeven, lijkt me nou niet zo gezond! Ik tuinier biologisch, zonder chemicaliën dus. Wat is jullie idee hierover?
Daarbij kan ik 't me niet veroorloven alle bakken van hout te maken. Hout is hartstikke duur in Nederland, geschikt afval hout, vind het maar eens! Het wordt dus steen (betonnen bandjes), daar kun je geen bak van maken die je op dat worteldoek kunt zetten, dat valt te makkelijk om, dat moet in de grond en het doek er dan in, zo ik dat al zou willen gebruiken, dan kan de kweek dus tussen het doek en het steen gaan groeien, iemand hier een idee over?
En dan de prijs. Er wordt beweerd dat SFG veel minder kost dan een Gewone Moestuin. Ik heb hierbij mijn twijfels. Los van de bakken, ben ik alleen al aan de inhoud van de bakken meer dan 500 euro kwijt, het is niet alleen de kostprijs, ook de vervoerprijs is vaak hoog, het gaat om flinke hoeveelheden (2 a 2,5e kuub per 1 van de drie ingrediënten, compost is het goedkoopst gelukkig, de rest hoeft maar 1x natuurlijk).
Dan de turf, ik ben niet zo'n voorstander voor het gebruik van turf en zou liever cocopeat gebruiken. Iemand dat uitgeprobeerd toevallig in een SFG?
En wat ik niet begrijp, turf is zuur, lage pH dus, compost is ook vaak aan de zure kant, moet je dat niet corrigeren? En hoe zit het met gewassen die een schrale grond vereisen, zoals witlof, laat je dan de compost achterwege ofzo?

Voor wie het leuk vindt: http://www.vlijtigelis.nl/blog daar blog ik soms over mijn tuin (en andere zaken)

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  happyfrog on 3/14/2010, 7:29 pm

here's original post in english (via google translator)

Dutch to English translationShow romanization
Hello,

I'm new to this forum and SFG. I hope that my mail idd in the Dutch part arrives, it is not entirely clear this forum ....
My situation is as follows, I have an allotment of 100m2 (5x20m) since last year. It is a breeding nursery super wet, heavy clay. The garden is very uneven, so many deep parts that should be raised. Before I came into contact with SFG, I was already planning to work with raised beds of 1.20 x 1.20 x 2.40 m or 1.20 for a certain hedges of 60cm. wide. Besides 1-year fruit etc. I also want some (small) fruit to grow. Why is it including the culture needed first to work out.
I come in 7 bins 2.40 to 1.20 x 1.20 x 1.20 and 5 of the rest are permanent shrubs and trees.
I have a few questions that hopefully have an answer:
Do you use root of woven cloth in the bottom of the tank?
My objections to that teneerst culture just as often grow right through, I've seen! Moreover, the plastic and that normally contains PCBs that is to be issued under you, not me now seem so healthy! I organic gardening without chemicals so. What is your view on this?
This I can 't not afford to make all the baking timber. Wood is very expensive in the Netherlands, suitable waste timber, consider it a try! It is therefore stone (concrete tapes), because you can not bake from it that you can put roots canvas that is too easy, which is in the ground and then in the canvas, so that all I would like to use, then the culture is between the canvas and the stone to grow, anybody an idea?
And then the price. It is said that SFG will cost much less than a Simple Kitchen Garden. I have my doubts here. Apart from the bins, I'm alone on the contents of the bins more than 500 million lost, it is not just the cost, the fare is often high, it is significant amounts (2 to 2.5 cubic meters per e 1 The three ingredients, compost is the cheapest happy, the rest only have 1x of course).
Then the peat, I'm not much support for the use of peat and would rather use cocopeat. Someone tried that happened in a SFG?
And I do not understand, peat is acidic, so low pH, compost is often on the acidic side, you should not correct? And what about the crops that require a poor soil, such as chicory, then let your compost failure or something?

Who likes it: http://www.vlijtigelis.nl/blog there on my blog I sometimes garden (and other things)

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  happyfrog on 3/14/2010, 7:36 pm

Hi!

I'm so glad you found this forum. I am going to have this translated into Dutch, so I apologize if it's not well translated as I will be using an online translator to help me.

regarding your question about the boxes and the bottom layer for weed prevention - in USA we use landscape fabric as a weed barrier. Some use newspaper or cardboard. plastic is not ideal because it will trap water - unless you poke many holes in it for drainage.

The coconut fibers will probably work acceptably instead of the peat moss. I have heard of others who have had success.

If you cannot find vermiculite, that's alright. Simply use more compost, but try to find at least 5 different sources of compost - for instance, chicken, rabbit, cow, horse, and garden compost (comprised of vegetable matter). The more varieties of compost you have, the better your garden will grow.

I do hope this is helpful. If I did not answer something, please let me know and I (or someone else) will do our best to help you get your garden going.

and here's the Dutch version:

en hier is de Nederlandse versie:

Hoi!

Ik ben zo blij dat je vond dit forum. Ik ga dit te hebben vertaald in het Nederlands, dus ik excuses als het niet goed vertaald als ik een online vertaler gebruiken om me te helpen.

met betrekking tot uw vraag over de dozen en de onderste laag voor wiet preventie - in de VS gebruiken we het landschap stof als een onkruid barrière. Sommigen gebruiken krant of karton. plastic is niet ideaal omdat het water val - tenzij u veel gaten steken in het voor drainage.

De kokosnoot vezels zal waarschijnlijk werken aanvaardbaar in plaats van het veen mos. Ik heb gehoord van anderen die wel succes hebben gehad.

Als u niet kunt vinden vermiculiet, dat goed is. Gebruik gewoon meer compost, maar probeer ten minste 5 verschillende bronnen van compost - bijvoorbeeld vinden, kip, konijn, koe, paard, en tuin compost (bestaande uit plantaardig materiaal). De meer variëteiten van compost je hebt, hoe beter uw tuin zal groeien.

Ik hoop dat dit nuttig is. Als ik geen antwoord iets, laat het me weten en ik (of iemand anders) zullen ons best doen om u te helpen uw tuin gaan.

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  IndustriousIris on 3/15/2010, 11:10 am

happyfrog wrote:Hi!

regarding your question about the boxes and the bottom layer for weed prevention - in USA we use landscape fabric as a weed barrier. Some use newspaper or cardboard. plastic is not ideal because it will trap water - unless you poke many holes in it for drainage.

The translation made me laugh sometimes;-) But thank you anyway for your reply!!
I do not mean just plastic, we have woven plastic cloth here which is commonly used underneath paths of pebbles for example, because it is woven, it will drain the water.
Cardboard or newspaper won't work neither. I started last year in my garden covering it with cardboard to kill the weeds. I was being told that I could put a layer of compost over it and plant some things through holes in the cardboard. The problem was, that due to the compost, the cardboard became and stayed wet soon and when wet, the couch grass can easlily grow through it:-(

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  IndustriousIris on 3/15/2010, 11:17 am

happyfrog wrote:Hi!

The coconut fibers will probably work acceptably instead of the peat moss. I have heard of others who have had success.

If you cannot find vermiculite, that's alright. Simply use more compost, but try to find at least 5 different sources of compost - for instance, chicken, rabbit, cow, horse, and garden compost (comprised of vegetable matter). The more varieties of compost you have, the better your garden will grow.

Okay, so rotten manure will be fine too as a component? Here in dutch the term compost is usually used for garden waste compost, the others are called manure (mest). I am afraid it will be very hard to find more than 3 different kinds. Garden waste compost is easy, horse manure and cow manure will be rather easy, but I have no idea where to get others, especially organic...
Great to hear that others had success with cocopeat, I'll use that! Thanks!

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  happyfrog on 3/15/2010, 12:13 pm

IndustriousIris wrote:
happyfrog wrote:Hi!

regarding your question about the boxes and the bottom layer for weed prevention - in USA we use landscape fabric as a weed barrier. Some use newspaper or cardboard. plastic is not ideal because it will trap water - unless you poke many holes in it for drainage.

The translation made me laugh sometimes;-) But thank you anyway for your reply!!
I do not mean just plastic, we have woven plastic cloth here which is commonly used underneath paths of pebbles for example, because it is woven, it will drain the water.
Cardboard or newspaper won't work neither. I started last year in my garden covering it with cardboard to kill the weeds. I was being told that I could put a layer of compost over it and plant some things through holes in the cardboard. The problem was, that due to the compost, the cardboard became and stayed wet soon and when wet, the couch grass can easlily grow through it:-(

glad i could give you a chuckle. *smile* And wow - you have AWESOME english skills!

the plastic woven fabric will probably work great under the raised bed boxes. Smile i must confess i too had trouble using newspaper or cardboard, but it is an alternative if other things are not available. i personally prefer using landscape fabric - which is used as your plastic 'breathable' fabric is utilized. Smile

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  happyfrog on 3/15/2010, 12:14 pm

IndustriousIris wrote:
happyfrog wrote:Hi!

The coconut fibers will probably work acceptably instead of the peat moss. I have heard of others who have had success.

If you cannot find vermiculite, that's alright. Simply use more compost, but try to find at least 5 different sources of compost - for instance, chicken, rabbit, cow, horse, and garden compost (comprised of vegetable matter). The more varieties of compost you have, the better your garden will grow.

Okay, so rotten manure will be fine too as a component? Here in dutch the term compost is usually used for garden waste compost, the others are called manure (mest). I am afraid it will be very hard to find more than 3 different kinds. Garden waste compost is easy, horse manure and cow manure will be rather easy, but I have no idea where to get others, especially organic...
Great to hear that others had success with cocopeat, I'll use that! Thanks!

yes, the manure - when aged will work well. Smile blend that with the garden compost and you'll have a great growing medium.

happy growing!

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  IndustriousIris on 3/16/2010, 12:11 pm

happyfrog wrote:Hi!


glad i could give you a chuckle. *smile* And wow - you have AWESOME english skills!

the plastic woven fabric will probably work great under the raised bed boxes. Smile i must confess i too had trouble using newspaper or cardboard, but it is an alternative if other things are not available. i personally prefer using landscape fabric - which is used as your plastic 'breathable' fabric is utilized. Smile

Thanks for your compliment about my English!
What exactly is landscape fabric? Where is it made of? I do not like to use plastic because of possibly leaking bpa's

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  LaFee on 3/16/2010, 3:04 pm

Hi, Iris -- on the other post, I mentioned that Google translates it as "anti-onkruid stof" --- with apologies if that's something crazy!

It's a woven cloth made of very tough synthetic fibres (only because if it's organic, it will turn back into earth so fast that it won't work!) -- but NOT plastic, so I think it would be free of BPAs.

AHA! I've found the information -- weed barrier cloth is made of polypropylene -- which has not been shown to leach BPAs.


Last edited by LaFee on 3/16/2010, 3:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : found more information)

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  IndustriousIris on 3/16/2010, 3:11 pm

LaFee wrote:Hi, Iris -- on the other post, I mentioned that Google translates it as "anti-onkruid stof" --- with apologies if that's something crazy!

It's a woven cloth made of very tough synthetic fibres (only because if it's organic, it will turn back into earth so fast that it won't work!) -- but NOT plastic, so I think it would be free of BPAs.

AHA! I've found the information -- weed barrier cloth is made of polypropylene -- which has not been shown to leach BPAs.

Ah, great, so I have to find out whether the stuff they sell here is polypropylene as well, thanks!

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  LaFee on 3/16/2010, 3:28 pm

Google told me that "anti-onkruid stof" was "anti-weed cloth" in English, so I figured it must be fairly close.

It's an American company, but you can see the stuff here:

http://www.frostproof.com/catalog/ng11.html

I also see a couple of US companies that make it from recycled water bottles...so perhaps there's a similar company somewhere in Europe.

The US might be a bigger country, but having shopped in garden centers both places, it's much easier to find organic products here in Europe...the US market is catching up, but it's still a challenge to stay chemical-free.

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  Mirjam on 3/16/2010, 4:27 pm

Hoi Iris,

ik begin maar gewoon in het nederlands, de rest kan zo goed overweg met google translate Smile
Ik heb wel houten boxen gemaakt, en er antiworteldoek in geniet. Ik weet dat de wortels er eventueel doorheen groeien, maar het houdt in ieder geval de naaktslakken die van onder de grond komen tegen, en aangezien ik hier zo ont-zet-tend veel slakken had afgelopen jaar leek me dat geen overbodige luxe. Op zich is het volgens mij helemaal niet noodzakelijk om iets op de bodem te leggen, je zou het dus ook achterwege kunnen laten. Ik zou dan wel de grond wat losmaken voordat je de verhoogde bedden plaatst, zodat er geen keiharde ondergrond onderzit.

Het gewone zwarte antiworteldoek wat je overal kunt krijgen is inderdaad polypropyleen.

groeten, Mirjam
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Re: beginners vragen

Post  IndustriousIris on 3/18/2010, 3:50 pm

LaFee wrote:Google told me that "anti-onkruid stof" was "anti-weed cloth" in English, so I figured it must be fairly close.

It's an American company, but you can see the stuff here:

http://www.frostproof.com/catalog/ng11.html

Thanks, now I have seen the pics, I know it is similar to what is sold here:-)

LaFee wrote:
The US might be a bigger country, but having shopped in garden centers both places, it's much easier to find organic products here in Europe...the US market is catching up, but it's still a challenge to stay chemical-free.

I understand, but as I said, the Netherlands are not Europe. Here they are way behind many European countries and it is not easy to buy abroad, because of the languages. I can sometimes find things in the UK, but shippingrates are high from there. Germany is okay too and Belgium of course

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  princezoe on 9/10/2013, 6:37 pm

Heb je geen harder materiaal zoals steen, dan kunnen naaktslakken helelmaal niet meer vanuit de grond je moestuin inkruipen ?
Als je op marktplaats kijkt, dan bieden mensen rond maart allerlei stenen tuintegels aan die je gratis kunt ophalen
In mijn tuin liggen ook tegels en daarop heb ik de sfg bakken gezet. Weinig last vast onkruid.

Aangezien ik een postzegeltuintje in amsterdam heb en een sfg balkon heb heb ik weinig last van slakken, dus voor mij is het wellicht makkelijk praten.

Ik zou heel graag een groter stukje moestuin willen hebben, maar dat is vrij lastig in amsterdam
De volkstuincomplexen hebben ook wachttijden schijnbaar, maar ik wil het dit jaar weer proberen
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Re: beginners vragen

Post  walshevak on 9/11/2013, 6:35 am

Here's hoping your request for an allotment next year is granted. Then you can do a lot more.

Kay

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Re: beginners vragen

Post  princezoe on 9/12/2013, 6:40 am

I hope so too.
It would be nice to make a nice SFG vegetable garden in Amsterdam
I hope i can make a kind of a documentary of that from the beginning to the end and make it known at schools, government and so on.

I have only been using SFG in my own small garden and balcony for 4 years now
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Re: beginners vragen

Post  sanderson on 9/12/2013, 11:49 pm

Photos, please! We love photos.
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Re: beginners vragen

Post  princezoe on 9/13/2013, 5:04 am

I am sorry, the weather is so bad in Holland now that i am already removing the plants from my garden and balcony.
The tomatoes are red, the carrots are big, the beans are great, etc
I am preparing a schedule for a vegetable garden in Amsterdam 
But before i have this vegetable garden, there a lot of things i have to manage
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Re: beginners vragen

Post  Paula Nadels on 2/11/2015, 6:31 am

Hi,
Ik heb niet alles gelezen, maar ik moet je in ieder geval ten sterkste aanraden het kweekgras te verwijderen alvorens wat dan ook te doen. Het is een zwaar werk, maar als je dat kwijt ben, ben je van een groot probleem verlost. Wij deden het met de riek: diep in de grond steken en omhoog halen. Alle wortels verwijderen en afvoeren. Een paar keer op dezelfde plek steken in verschillende richtingen. Misschien kun je wat helpers inschakelen? Dat scheelt een hoop!
Veel succes!
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Re: beginners vragen

Post  princezoe on 2/11/2015, 7:15 am

Hallo Paula,

deze vragen werden ongeveer in september 2013 gesteld, maar dat zie je niet op deze site. Je ziet alleen de datum zonder jaartal.
Normaliter maak ik mijn SFG Boxen gewoon op zand, steen of gras met stevig anti-wortelmat en kippengaas eronder
Gaat altijd goed

Inmiddels woon ik in Italie, maar daar is deze methode goed te herhalen
Het leuke van bovengenoemde manier is dat je niet hoeft te spitten, omploegen etc... fijn voor je rug

Groeten
Richard
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Re: beginners vragen

Post  walshevak on 2/11/2015, 11:52 pm

Google translate
Hi, 
I have not read everything, but I need to remove at least strongly recommend wheatgrass before anything else to do so. It's a tough job, but if you lose that, you've got rid of a big problem. We did it with the prong: stabbing deep into the ground and pick up. Remove all roots and drains. A couple of times at the same place stabbing in different directions. Maybe you can turn on some helpers? That saves a lot!
Best of luck!


Hi Paula,

these questions were asked about in September 2013, but that you do not see on this site. You see only the date without year.
Normally I make my SFG boxes just sand, gravel or grass with strong anti-root mat and chicken wire underneath
Always goes well

Now I live in Italy, but this method is worth repeating
The fun of the above way is that you do not have to dig, plow etc ... fine for your back

greet
Richard



The date can be adjusted to show the year in your profile, preferences, date format.


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