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vermiculite danger?

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vermiculite danger?

Post  jbh29 on 6/3/2011, 1:22 pm

The vermiculite we just got for our next bed, has warnings on the label about inhalation danger. It also has a specific warning that states it may contain an ingredient that according to the state of California causes cancer.

Is this something that we should be concerned about? I know you can be careful when mixing not to inhale it, but what about our veggies growing in it. Can this ingredient that causes cancer be taken up by our plants?

I failed to see these warnings on the bags of vermiculite we used last year to start our sfg.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  H_TX on 6/3/2011, 1:37 pm

I have found that the state of California thinks everything causes cancer so I have come to completely ignore those warnings. I know this is not the state government mentioned in this article but it does further my opinion that Californian governmental types are not the most science savvy bunch.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4534017/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/local-officials-nearly-fall-ho-hoax/

I think those labels are required by California law if they want to sell those products in California.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  BackyardBirdGardner on 6/3/2011, 4:15 pm

Mel writes about it in the book. Anyone know where it is?

If you don't work full time around the stuff, I wouldn't be worried about it. If we panicked everytime we read warning labels, we wouldn't brush our teeth with toothpaste. Seriously, look at the label and tell me if you want to let your kids brush their teeth anymore.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  dizzygardener on 6/3/2011, 4:21 pm

Mel mentions it briefly on page 99.

As a native Californian I can assure you that the warnings are pretty well useless. I even have one on my car! They are everywhere and on everything. CA indeed thinks everything causes cancer.

There isn't anything to be concerned about. You just don't want to breathe in a bunch of it.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  jbh29 on 6/3/2011, 5:58 pm

Thanks for setting my mind at ease. When I sit down this evening, I'll pull out the book and read page 99, and while I brush my teeth tonight, I'll read the tube.

Boy, you'd never know what source if info you'll read to support our sfg passons. Shocked

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  middlemamma on 6/4/2011, 12:26 am

And please, whatever you do, don't ever blow dry your hair while you are in the shower, it is absolutely hazardous to your health!

I also think my curling iron has a warning that is meant to deter you from sticking it in any orifices? There must be a real problem with that somewhere.

Oh! And don't ever take Preparation H orally! It says so right on the tube.... Shocked I wanna meet the guy that made that warning required.

I also think Joe bought a fan belt for our car once and it said on it something to the effect of...Make sure the motor is turned off before replacing. Seriously...wow.

Now if children just came with warnings...

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  BackyardBirdGardner on 6/4/2011, 12:33 am

I think I better explain the toothpaste thing. If you read the part about "don't give children more than a 'pea-sized' amount." That part is there to give you a rough idea. We called poision control (on someone's suggestion once) about giving more than the pea-sized amount. Poison control says, "don't worry....there is an agent in toothpaste that will cause the child to throw up."

Really? I am putting something in my kid's mouth that will make him throw up if too much is ingested? And, it's put in there to keep OTHER harmful things from getting into his system? That just blew our minds.

And, if you ever read an ingredient label on Binaca (breathspray), you will find the first one is isobutane. Isobutane is the primary cutting agent for freaking rocket fuel. No wonder it's flammable......and we spray it in our mouths?

I just get amazed at what people think is hazardous to our health....because they "heard" something on the news....or from someone. But, we put tons of stuff in our bodies everyday that is way worse...just never publicized.

I guess...out of sight, out of mind.

Sorry, no intent to hijack thread.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  Old Hippie on 6/4/2011, 1:14 am

Nobody gets out of here alive anyway so we should probably just get used to it.

I decided to quit worrying about most of the warnings since they have just gotten so ridiculous. People who have to be told not to try and iron their shirt while wearing it or not to put the curling iron in orifices really should be allowed to do their own thing. Darwin awards really do have their place. It used to be these types never made it to adulthood so their chance of having offspring and passing on their "stupidity gene" was limited. Thus the gene pool stayed fairly strong. Now we have all these warnings and laws and look what's happened. We get movies like "jackass" ad nauseum.



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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  boffer on 6/4/2011, 1:28 am

Remember the CCA pressure treated wood that was phased out a few years ago because it contained arsenic? Laboratory tests proved that there was enough arsenic to kill me if I ate two 2x4x8' every day for 10 years.

Good roughage, but pretty boring diet.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  Old Hippie on 6/4/2011, 1:39 am

and nobody says anything at all about the arsenic in cigarettes. LOL! Among other stuff.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  westie42 on 6/4/2011, 2:04 am

This is a favorite peeve of mine. It sounds like you in Wisconsin found yours at Menards in the insulation section. If so it comes in 3 cft bags from Sun Gro with the yellow and black labels. That same warning is also on the Sun Gro horticultural product in white with green writing bags at 4 cft per bag. The difference that registers with me is on the Sun Gro website product page where the horticultural product states it is sterile whereas the insulation does not make that distinction. We are talking about fine print and maybe even small potatoes but give the choice I so far have chose to avoid the insulation grade in favor of the sterile horticultural vermiculite from a local farm and garden store. Even a lady in Menards garden section said she did not favor recommending the insulation product. However I admit that Menards is not famous for hiring knowledge. The price difference so far is fairly minor and can go either way week by week. Glad to get that off my chest again.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  Goosegirl on 6/4/2011, 9:08 am

@H_TX wrote:I have found that the state of California thinks everything causes cancer
I think those labels are required by California law if they want to sell those products in California.

Having lived in CA for most of my life, I have to agree!

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  BackyardBirdGardner on 6/4/2011, 10:17 am

@Old Hippie wrote:We get movies like "jackass" ad nauseum.

But, I love me some Tosh.0! At least that guy makes fun of them. Same generation of humor, but he's kind of on our side.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  Old Hippie on 6/4/2011, 10:30 am

True dat, but there are so many idiots around now at the shallow end of the gene pool who see those movies and don't understand that concept. Instead, it appears that they use these as instructional movies and go on to make their own videos of stupid tricks to put on youtube. It really does bug me that in Canada, publicly funded ambulances are used on these people and then are not there for the people who really need them.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  boog1 on 6/4/2011, 11:13 am

i bought a car a couple of months ago, and everyother page in the owners manual has the california warning label on it. if its not the plastic molded dash its the gas or the carpeting or other fluids even the paint it was painted with, talk bout OVER kill they should jus put a warning label on the whole state " the state of california has deemed itself a hazard to anybody an anything" common sence can go a long ways seems like alot of the people we elect seem ta lose it once they get that new title. i'll stop before i say something i'll reget later. Rolling Eyes



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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  UnderTheBlackWalnut on 6/4/2011, 11:18 am

@westie42 wrote:This is a favorite peeve of mine. It sounds like you in Wisconsin found yours at Menards in the insulation section. If so it comes in 3 cft bags from Sun Gro with the yellow and black labels. That same warning is also on the Sun Gro horticultural product in white with green writing bags at 4 cft per bag. The difference that registers with me is on the Sun Gro website product page where the horticultural product states it is sterile whereas the insulation does not make that distinction. We are talking about fine print and maybe even small potatoes but give the choice I so far have chose to avoid the insulation grade in favor of the sterile horticultural vermiculite from a local farm and garden store. Even a lady in Menards garden section said she did not favor recommending the insulation product. However I admit that Menards is not famous for hiring knowledge. The price difference so far is fairly minor and can go either way week by week. Glad to get that off my chest again.

I was concerned as well. I actually wrote Sungro an email asking them if the insulation was the "wrong" kind for my garden and would be harmful (after reading the yellow/black insulation bag). This is the email I sent:

Is the Mica-Flakes product sold in the insulation area of my local Menards store in the 3 cu ft bags the SAME product as coarse vermiculite that would be used to amend raised bed gardens? I seem to be having trouble locating the course vermiculite locally and the square foot gardening site suggests the insulation product as a replacement. I was slightly concerned when the bag said it contained small amounts of a quartz carcinogenic product - also per the MSDS. Is that the case with ALL vermiculite used in growing applications, so that really this product is the same, or should I be ordering the product labeled for growing applications? Thanks!

This is the email I received back from Kathryn Louis kathrynl@sungro.com who stated:

Hi Maria
Thank you for contacting Sun Gro. If the product is “Sunshine” or “Stronglite” brand, then the vermiculite is the same as what is used in greenhouses. It may be coarser (larger) size but it will work well in your garden.
Happy Gardening.
--Kathryn


Based on the company's response, it sounds like the major difference is just lack of uniform sizing in the insulation....????

I did finally end up finding one place in this area that carried the green/white SunGro Hort Verm, but based on this answer, I probably would have used the insulation without hesitation. To me, and I'm no expert, the MSDS sheets on the website seemed to have similar warnings for both....and they basically involved breathing in the quartz.....

:scratch:

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  CindiLou on 6/4/2011, 10:15 pm

I bought the insulation version. I feel that the main problem would be if you inhaled the crystals for an extended lenthg of time. Once mixed up I believe there is not threat to the soil and I would be keeping it damp for seeds if it is not covered by plant. I felt it was safe to use and much cheaper. Just $12.95 for 3 cubic foot at Menards.

I feel it is kinda like the hot coffee warnings!

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  NHGardener on 6/4/2011, 10:20 pm

@BackyardBirdGardner wrote:If we panicked everytime we read warning labels, we wouldn't brush our teeth with toothpaste. Seriously, look at the label and tell me if you want to let your kids brush their teeth anymore.

My 10 yr. old is paranoid about brushing her teeth after having read the toothpaste tube. She rinses her mouth about 60 times afterwards too. She showed me exactly where it says on the toothpaste tube that it's poisonous...

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  walshevak on 6/4/2011, 11:23 pm

Sun Gro distribution operation is here in Elizabeth City. I talked to the guy on Thur about buying vermiculite in small quantities and he said sure, just give me a few days so I can break up a big container and package in 3 cu ft bags.
Gonna charge $12.99. I got a feeling its mostly the same stuff just different bags.

He also said can sell me a forest products compost and peat. Wanted to know why I didn't want the premixed blend of 1/3, 1/3, 1/3.


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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  westie42 on 6/4/2011, 11:28 pm

Ah, do you mean Sun Gro also mixes and sells MM. I know they do sell lots of different hort supplies. And supposedly Lowes sells bagged MM, which I hear is around$16 for 2cft, outrageous unless you are desparate. Hmmm.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  walshevak on 6/4/2011, 11:41 pm

not a real MM. only 1 type of compost. The operation is big out on SunGro Road. Huge piles of mulch and I guess compost. I didn't get close enough to check it throughly. Anyway, I told him it didn't have enough different kinds of compost and that I couldn't use it. Did find out somebody else had been in a year ago asking about SFG supplies.

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  jbh29 on 6/5/2011, 9:28 pm

Wow, I leave for a weekend and this thread gets really entertaining! Laughing

Thanks for all the good info and great perspectives on warning labels. My favorite (since my husband cuts our fire wood for winter heat) is "do not stop chain saw with your hand". Now that's good advice! affraid

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  NHGardener on 6/5/2011, 10:05 pm

rofl

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  unmadecastle on 6/5/2011, 10:20 pm

@jbh29 wrote:Wow, I leave for a weekend and this thread gets really entertaining! Laughing

Thanks for all the good info and great perspectives on warning labels. My favorite (since my husband cuts our fire wood for winter heat) is "do not stop chain saw with your hand". Now that's good advice! affraid

Well Ya know if there is a warning like that somebody actually tried it!

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Re: vermiculite danger?

Post  WardinWake on 6/5/2011, 10:34 pm

@unmadecastle wrote:
@jbh29 wrote:Wow, I leave for a weekend and this thread gets really entertaining! Laughing

Thanks for all the good info and great perspectives on warning labels. My favorite (since my husband cuts our fire wood for winter heat) is "do not stop chain saw with your hand". Now that's good advice! affraid

Well Ya know if there is a warning like that somebody actually tried it!

Howdy Folks:

My favorite warning is on the bag of "Chick'en Doo Doo" compost. It reads "Do Not Eat" and my favorite Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) is for water. Check the section on fire danger.

God Bless, Ward and Mary.

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