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Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  BackyardBirdGardner on 8/29/2011, 8:48 am

Maybe so, but the gov't, better yet the media, always overreacts to weather events. However, the one time you drop your guard, you get a Katrina. So, in the end, just prepare for the worst instead of gambling that people are overblowing things.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  Denese on 8/29/2011, 9:25 am

FarmerValerie wrote:

We were not supposed to get any rain today,or in fact this week, but we awoke to rain here in NE TX, thanks to those who prayed for Irene to send rain our way.

YAY!! So happy you got some rain!!

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  sherryeo on 8/29/2011, 10:29 am

FarmerValerie,

I think the potential was there for this hurricane to have done much more damage and take many more lives than actually happened. No one has the capability presently of being able to predict the specific damage/fatalities for a particular hurricane.

I think when you have human lives at stake, the government just has to err on the side of caution. Can you imagine how people would have reacted to the government if they had not taken the usual precautions and the hurricane actually did much more damage and took even more lives? They'd have been harshly criticized for that!

Just my 2 cents worth.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  boffer on 8/29/2011, 10:49 am

@FarmerValerie wrote: Latest news topic seems to be "Did the government overreact". Please keuep politics out, but I am curious what my gardening friends have to say, do you think local and state officials overreacted to this event by evacuating?

My 2 cents, as always, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

For decades, administrations, from both parties, have gotten skewered for underacting. They don't have a choice but to err on the side of caution.

Given the data the state pols were analyzing late last week, I don't think they had a choice this time. The potential odds for catastrophic loss of life were too great. Although the experts can pre-determine some of the major damage that will occur, there are thousands of unknown failures in infrastructure, geography, and fate just waiting to emerge to kill and destroy.

And, if nothing else, it was a great simulation for emergency services at all levels to practice the changes and improvements they've made since 9/11 and Katrina. Part of the improvements were in communication and interaction among agencies, that need the real deal to truly be tested.

Being prepared in NYC is a challenge. So many apartments are so small, there isn't room to stock up on much. The entire city operates on a 24 hour just-in-time delivery supply system. If the thousands of trucks that make daily deliveries to the city can't get across the bridges, retail shuts down because grocery stores, markets, delis, and restaurants have nothing to sell.

As for the media, disgraceful as usual. At times I'm not certain if they are leading the way, or just following, along the dumbing down of America path we are on.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  FarmerValerie on 8/29/2011, 11:00 am

@boffer wrote:

And, if nothing else, it was a great simulation for emergency services at all levels to practice the changes and improvements they've made since 9/11 and Katrina. Part of the improvements were in communication and interaction among agencies, that need the real deal to truly be tested.

Being prepared in NYC is a challenge. So many apartments are so small, there isn't room to stock up on much. The entire city operates on a 24 hour just-in-time delivery supply system. If the thousands of trucks that make daily deliveries to the city can't get across the bridges, retail shuts down because grocery stores, markets, delis, and restaurants have nothing to sell.



That was exactly my thinking. A real good, real life, go at a larger storm. I read somewhere local that when Rita came everyone left because of what happened during Katrina, then when Ike came many stayed, and Ike was a bad one (we lost power for 24 hours way up here in NE TX from that one). That is my biggest fear is many will stay because Irene wasn't as bad as they predicted.



I watched the weather channel live online (no cable or sat here, so this was a treat, I love watching the weather), what really upset me is the people out driving or walking with their kids. Next time even more will be, and there will be more loss of life. I did see one reporter talking about the people out, and said something like "Stupid people, just like these. The car he was talking about had just pulled up, rolled down their windows, and were waving at the camera as Irene was coming ashore in NC.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  moswell on 8/29/2011, 11:05 am

Well I still don't have power here in Middlesex County, NJ. I made the arduous trek into work today (what should have been 7 minutes took 45 since so many roads and bridges over the Raritan and its tributaries are flooded). But here at least I've got some power to recharge my cell phone and use the much more convenient internet access rather than that on my android phone.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  FarmerValerie on 8/29/2011, 11:09 am

moswell, glad you are okay!



So what do you think moswell, all in all did local and state officials handle things well or did they overreact? Keep us posted on your electricity, and flood status.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  moswell on 8/29/2011, 11:13 am

@FarmerValerie wrote:moswell, glad you are okay!



So what do you think moswell, all in all did local and state officials handle things well or did they overreact? Keep us posted on your electricity, and flood status.

Oh, it was a bit of overreaction. Actually, the thing that makes me the most annoyed is when it's become clear that the storm isn't going to be as bad as they originally thought, yet they continue the hyperbole.

For example, the weather channel and weather.com still seemed to be going bonkers about the storm well after it was clear its strength was fading and that its affect on NY was going to be less than they'd planned.

But you're all right that since politicians get skewered for underreaction, they don't really have much of a choice!

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  camprn on 8/29/2011, 11:14 am

@boffer wrote:
@FarmerValerie wrote: Latest news topic seems to be "Did the government overreact". Please keuep politics out, but I am curious what my gardening friends have to say, do you think local and state officials overreacted to this event by evacuating?

My 2 cents, as always, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

For decades, administrations, from both parties, have gotten skewered for underacting. They don't have a choice but to err on the side of caution.

Given the data the state pols were analyzing late last week, I don't think they had a choice this time. The potential odds for catastrophic loss of life were too great. Although the experts can pre-determine some of the major damage that will occur, there are thousands of unknown failures in infrastructure, geography, and fate just waiting to emerge to kill and destroy.

And, if nothing else, it was a great simulation for emergency services at all levels to practice the changes and improvements they've made since 9/11 and Katrina. Part of the improvements were in communication and interaction among agencies, that need the real deal to truly be tested.

Being prepared in NYC is a challenge. So many apartments are so small, there isn't room to stock up on much. The entire city operates on a 24 hour just-in-time delivery supply system. If the thousands of trucks that make daily deliveries to the city can't get across the bridges, retail shuts down because grocery stores, markets, delis, and restaurants have nothing to sell.

As for the media, disgraceful as usual. At times I'm not certain if they are leading the way, or just following, along the dumbing down of America path we are on.

Perhaps it may seem an over reaction, if it's not your backyard. The southern coasts were hit pretty hard, NYC managed well with minimal damage, Flooding up the entire northern half of the Eastcoast. Parts of N. East NY, North NH and all of Vermont and is absolutely gutted. All mountains and steep valleys with, at this time of year, the brooks that are usually small flows turned into RAGING torrents of water. Dams have failed. Bridges gone, which means you cannot get there from here, no other way 'round. There is incredible infrastructure damage, the interstate is closed. Anything that was not tied down was washed away including homes, cars, propane tanks, etc. It is going to take months and years to recover. Many farmers have lost everything. Agreed about the media, the sensationalization of the hurricane force winds and storm surge in metro areas and then of course so few folks live north of NYC (sarcasm) that there is little coverage of what is being dealt with in the effected areas on the ground. At least the ground that was not washed away. NO, there was not an over reaction, along the East coast, in NYC or here. Shocked


Last edited by camprn on 8/29/2011, 11:29 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : typos, per usual.)

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  FarmerValerie on 8/29/2011, 11:26 am

WOW, camprn, that was incredible (not good, but powerful). I did hear that the East Coast had been having rain for a while so it was already wet. It does not take long for tiny little creeks and even ditches to turn into raging water. I've seen our little 3' ditch turn into something I'm not going near in a storm, I can imagine those rivers whose waters are already high doing major damage.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  camprn on 8/29/2011, 12:04 pm

Some more photos here

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  littlejo on 8/29/2011, 12:32 pm

Some folks say it was over reaction, but prevention is better than what could have been. If they had not evacuated and had not turned off the power, and was still running the subway, and then mother nature said to h__ with you, well. If it had flooded while running the subway, folks would have died and the transformers would have blown. Instead of a couple days down, it could have been a couple weeks.

Problem is folks and the press only think of the wind. But a hurricaine is much more, especially the rain.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  camprn on 8/29/2011, 1:32 pm

This was more than a little storm. Every picture tells a story.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  squaredeal on 8/29/2011, 3:08 pm

WOW -saw the photos! Folks in Vermont and New Hampshire don't expect hurricanes or tropical storms on their doorsteps. Its going to take years to repair some of the damage. My heart goes out to everyone dealing with the damage.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  Chopper on 8/29/2011, 8:27 pm

I think the big surprise was in NJ/Philly and Vermont/NH. I think wind damage was expected but not the level of flooding that has been seen. There is going to be a lot of cleanup needed and just tremendous damage - to infrastructure as well as personal property and business. Ouch. Flooding is such a pain to clean up from. And washed out bridges and roads do not heal themselves and cause big problems - esp in rural areas where there are not lots of road choices. Vermont and NH are usually spared large scale natural disasters so the good news is you probably won't see another one for quite awhile.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  BackyardBirdGardner on 8/29/2011, 9:03 pm

Actually, the thing that makes me the most annoyed is when it's become clear that the storm isn't going to be as bad as they originally thought, yet they continue the hyperbole.

For example, the weather channel and weather.com still seemed to be going bonkers about the storm well after it was clear its strength was fading and that its affect on NY was going to be less than they'd planned.

Exactly THIS! I pull my hair out when they insult our intelligence like this. I wish there was something someone could do to pull them back to reality. If you watch closely, sometimes the reporters smile at what they, themselves, are being forced to say.

Another part of my issue with media is the coverage of NYC/megalopolis ONLY! Once the storm passes, they pretty much drop coverage and get onto something else. Well, in NH/VT/ME is was just starting to get bad and they never covered a bit of it until reports came in that the flooding was super bad. Notice TWC never sent a reporter up there, either. That part really ticks me off. It's a ratings chase/hype only. The coverage they provide has very little to do with actual service. It's about dollars. I get it, but it borders on unethical and unfair.

As for the storm, it was bad. People were warned appropriately in that no one was caught off-guard. However, it still could have been much, much worse had Irene been a little stronger or held strength a bit longer. When we are analyzing storms of this magnitude, it's easy to forget that just a little more power results in exponentially worse damage. It wouldn't have taken much more to do a LOT more.

All in all, I think people got away fairly lucky....as a region. Sure, some are devastated, and for that I'm sorry. But, it still could have been a lot worse. If you made it relatively unscathed, be thankful you more or less dodged the bullet.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  camprn on 8/29/2011, 10:01 pm

Agreed BBG, I fared very well, a bit of water in the basement with no major damage, power out for 7 hours, the neighbors trees still standing. I currently live in NH but I have lived and my heart truly is in Vermont. So too with this Native Vermonter who is so close to tears.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  BackyardBirdGardner on 8/29/2011, 11:46 pm

1- I was rooting for you to get more sunshine in your yard. Bummer.

2- I had no idea Cantore is from VT. That's the sort of useless trivia I should know. (But, I do now....lol)

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  acara on 8/30/2011, 7:15 am

@moswell wrote:Well I still don't have power here in Middlesex County, NJ. I made the arduous trek into work today (what should have been 7 minutes took 45 since so many roads and bridges over the Raritan and its tributaries are flooded). But here at least I've got some power to recharge my cell phone and use the much more convenient internet access rather than that on my android phone.



Glad to hear yr okay.



I know yr pain ..... been on the phone wil PSE&G all day (I'm the disaster recovery manager for my work). We have a facility in New Brunswick and we are still being told "Sept 4" for power restoration.



Our staff is all okay, but roads are supposedly a mess.....so be careful.



I may be heading up for a visit today or tommorrow, if we can't get the facility powered back up via PSE&G.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  FarmerValerie on 8/30/2011, 8:02 am

I think what people expected was more of a "coastal" hurricane, but Irene did more damage inland than along the coast. Also, when people think of Katrina they think of New Orleans, and as tragic as that was, there was not one area in the entire state of Mississippi that was not affected, in fact MS suffered more damage than LA. If the levees had held, NO would not have been on the news as much. Unfortunately we have grown up taught that we can count on the governement and government officials, and yes even the Army Corp of Engineers, I am not knocking anyone, or criticizing anyone, I just think we need to remember that we are ALL human, and growing up in central IL, at times near the Mighty Mississippi River, I learned early that the levees don't hold, they are man made. I personally am glad that New York is okay, for selfish reasons (ecconimics), and as I suspected we are just now begining to see just how bad Irene was, I just heard an entire town In VT is surrounded by water, and no one can get out. It's like Katrina in the way that we went to bed knowing that NO was okay, and woke up the next morning to all of our worst fears being realized.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

Post  capatl on 8/30/2011, 8:27 pm

@camprn wrote:Agreed BBG, I fared very well, a bit of water in the basement with no major damage, power out for 7 hours, the neighbors trees still standing. I currently live in NH but I have lived and my heart truly is in Vermont. So too with this Native Vermonter who is so close to tears.

What a moving bit from Jim Cantore, thanks for posting that. It is a good reminder of how hard these folks work, not just because they have a passion for weather, but to help save lives.

Camprn, I took a trip through NH with my family, my grandparents (my grand-dad grew up in/near Keene!) about 10 years ago. That trip is one I hold close to my heart as he died only a couple years later. He was so excited that his college-aged grandkids were willing to take a road trip through his home town/state. It is truly beautiful up there.

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Re: Weekend Weather: Hurricane Irene

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