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Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

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Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  daryl.weaver on 1/14/2012, 7:17 pm

I read in ANSFG Mel's advice about not painting inside boxes due to the possibility of chemical leaching. I built my boxes out of untreated 2x8's, so they will be more prone to rot than pressure-treated lumber. I plan to paint the top and sides. My question is, ,do you think it would be safe to coat inside the box with spray polyurethane sealer?

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  Chopper on 1/14/2012, 7:30 pm

Good question. Were it I, I would do it. I do not believe that you are much at risk. Or, you could use the sealer and then line with weed cloth to put a layer between your soil and the polyurethane. Plus, it would probably help with longevity also.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  sfg4uKim on 1/14/2012, 8:17 pm

That IS a good question. I guess I would read the can to see what warnings they list . . . especially how they suggest you dispose of the can. If you have to jump through hoops to dispose of it properly, I don't think I would do it. If it's safe to dispose in the regular trash, I might consider it.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  LaborDay RN on 1/14/2012, 8:24 pm

I'm not sure about a spray. Seems it could break down into the soil over time. I plan to line the inside of my boxes (just the sides, not the bottom) with some type of heavy water resistant liner. I'm going to staple it to the inside top edge. I haven't decided what the material will be yet, but will try to find something safe for growing veggies. I hope it will add longevity to my lumber.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  daryl.weaver on 1/14/2012, 8:36 pm

@LaborDay RN wrote:...I plan to line the inside of my boxes (just the sides, not the bottom) with some type of heavy water resistant liner. I'm going to staple it to the inside top edge. I haven't decided what the material will be yet, but will try to find something safe for growing veggies. I hope it will add longevity to my lumber.

Great suggestion. I'm beating myself up that I didn't think off all this before I stapled the weed cloth and hardware cloth to the bottom of my boxes. You make a good point, could had simply lined the insides with sheets of polyurethane to add longevity to the boxes without the chemical concerns. I wonder if vinyl siding would work. thinking

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  Red-Leg on 1/14/2012, 9:12 pm

Hmmm...I wonder if one of the liquid rubber products such as RedGard would be safe for the interior and bottom of the boards.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  sfg4uKim on 1/14/2012, 9:43 pm

Regarding Redgard:

EMERGENCY OVERVIEW

Section 2: HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
CAUTION MAY CAUSE EYE IRRITATION. MAY CAUSE SKIN IRRITATION. Potential Health Effects: See Section 11 for more information. Likely Routes of Exposure: Skin contact, eye contact, inhalation, and ingestion.
Eye: Skin: Ingestion: Inhalation:
May cause eye irritation. May cause skin irritation. May be harmful if swallowed. May cause stomach distress, nausea or vomiting. May cause respiratory tract irritation.
Chronic Effects: Prolonged or repeated contact may dry skin and cause irritation.
Signs and Symptoms: Symptoms may include discomfort or pain, excess blinking and tear production. Symptoms may include redness, drying, and cracking of the skin. Do not allow product to harden around any body part or allow continuous, prolonged contact with skin. Handling can cause dry skin.
Medical Conditions Aggravated By Exposure: Asthma. Allergies. Target Organs: Skin, eyes, gastrointestinal tract, respiratory system.
Potential Environmental Effects: May cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment. See Section 12 for more information.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  Chopper on 1/14/2012, 10:25 pm

My thing is that I do not believe that even if any of the ingredients leached into the soil that they would be picked up by the plants. I would use it.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  LaborDay RN on 1/14/2012, 10:43 pm

I'm leaning towards a fish safe pond liner myself. I'm not going to have a huge garden, just one 12' x 4 and a 4' x4' so I think it will work for me. I'm just hoping to get a few extra years out of my lumber. Very Happy

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  RoOsTeR on 1/14/2012, 10:46 pm

What was the consensus on linseed oil a couple of weeks ago?

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  boffer on 1/14/2012, 10:48 pm

non-boiled was OK; don't use the boiled.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  camprn on 1/14/2012, 10:52 pm

@LaborDay RN wrote:I'm leaning towards a fish safe pond liner myself. I'm not going to have a huge garden, just one 12' x 4 and a 4' x4' so I think it will work for me. I'm just hoping to get a few extra years out of my lumber. Very Happy
In your climate my guess is that plain untreated pine planks would last 5 or more years.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  RoOsTeR on 1/14/2012, 10:55 pm

That's pretty much my thoughts camp. Woods not dirt cheap, but it's probably not much more than what you would treat it with.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  januaryX on 1/14/2012, 10:59 pm

Does anyone know of any case where an end user died from exposure to CCA treated wood? I find lots of talk, but no substance.

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Natural still seems best in my opinion....

Post  EatYourVeggies on 1/15/2012, 3:22 am

I live in the Pacific Northwest and its no joke, we receive more than our share of rain and snow. Even taking that into consideration, I believe SFG boxes made from untreated Pine or Douglas Fir are going to be the least expensive and safest way to go. Still safe, but more expensive choices would include Redwood or Cedar. The majority of consumers would probably also find these woods, more aesthetically pleasing.

Lining a bed with plastic seems like a good idea, but as was pointed out, would probably cost almost as much as replacing the beds themselves, once they've decayed, and years later.

I think natural is a good way to go and any form of chemical coating should be avoided, to prevent potential leaching of toxins into the soil. There have been so many examples in our life times of products that are deemed safe upon introduction to their respective markets, but discovered years later to have been carcinogens. Unfortunately, you can't go back to the drawing board and erase those once they happen. Sad

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  janezee on 1/15/2012, 4:14 am

I guess I'm in a fairly unique (I hope that's so) position to address this issue.

For many years, I worked around lots of petrochemicals. Fertilizers, pesticides, cleaning products, solvents, paints, perfumes. And, of course, synthetic foods. (Read the labels!)
I've been sickly for almost all my life, and it got to where I've been disabled for 16 years, from Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS). This, complicated, and probably caused by, a blood disorder that was misdiagnosed for 40 years, almost killed me 13 years ago. I've been working hard on regaining my health, since I was finally diagnosed then. The care from some absolutely amazingly dedicated people brought me back from the brink. Poisons had accumulated in my body because my blood was too diseased to clean it out of my liver, and then my brain and other organs. Conventional doctors had no idea what was wrong with me because it was so rare. I was too ill to describe it, because it had affected my brain too far. Speech was difficult; understanding, even more so.
It's been 13 years of struggle to try to come out of that fog, remember the simplest of things, find the joy of inspiration once again. This is why I garden. For my health. And it has worked wonders. I'm healthier than I've been since I was pregnant, 29 years ago.
Some things still don't work. I can't dance, because of my dizziness, I still have a stutter, my body can't take any stress at all. AAMOF, it's making me very nervous to be writing this at all. It's taking a long time to write this, very tiring.
Why am I sharing all this, you ask?
We who have MCS, for whatever reason, are growing in number by the thousands every year. Now, we're called "the canaries in the coal mines." We are allergic to almost everything man-made. It's all petrochemicals. You don't know when your body will hit the tipping point, and you will become ill. I struggle with it daily.
Exhaust from coal plants, diesel trucks, lawn mowers. Spray perfumes in public restrooms. Tide, Bounce, Joy, Windex, scented garbage bags. Your aftershave, perfume. My deodorant, shampoo, make-up, or yours, if it's strongly scented. My mother's chewing gum. Stale smoke. And, yes, I can smell it. 100 times more than you can. darn it.
Artificial flavorings and colors and preservatives in food. Artificial hormones in medications. Chlorine in your pools and hot tubs. Fluoride and chloramine in the water you drink and shower in. This is, by no means, a complete list.
So, I can tell you that most plastic, especially polyvinylchloride, (yes, PVC) like what some pond liners are made of, and polyurethane make me very ill. As I, and you, are exposed to more and more of this, we store more of it in our organs.
I use untreated wood. I personally, very personally, think you should, too.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  llama momma on 1/15/2012, 6:56 am

Janezee,
You have written a stunning personal account. Thank you for sharing. I hope you continue to feel better. So many ways to be contaminated between skin absorption, breathing, eating, and drinking. Not knowing at what point the body becomes hyper-sensitized, or if damages can be reversed or not. Blah. After reading your post I paused and changed my mind about lining my next box with plastic. Not doing it. I’m not convinced a healthy plastic exists. Think I’d rather spend a nice day emptying (good exercise too) a deteriorated box and refilling a new one without plastic for peace of mind.
Keep feeling better and Thanks!

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  sfg4uKim on 1/15/2012, 8:13 am

Everyone needs to figure out what he/she feels is a tolerable risk.

Personally I don't want to peel my root vegetables nor wonder how much arsenic my leafy greens are uptaking as is suggested in the paragraph below from a Study from Penn State (from this link, click on the PDF file). Can you imagine telling your child or grandchild that they can't eat that carrot they just pulled out of the dirt because it's dangerous? The whole reason I garden organically is so we CAN eat it w/o peeling.

"Scientific studies of trace element uptake in plants have shown that plant species differ greatly in the amounts of metals they take up from the same soil. Plant species also behave very differently with regard to movement of metals from roots to stems, leaves, and fruits. In general, most metals remain in the roots, with limited movement to edible portions above the ground. There are exceptions, of course: leafy green vegetables such as lettuce, spinach, and mustard greens tend to move As (Arsenic) from roots to leaves. In general, however, the greatest human consumption of metals results from eating root crops such as beets, turnips, carrots, and potatoes. In these crops, most of the metals remain in the surface skin and can be removed by peeling."

Page Four has a section I hope everyone who uses treated wood will read.

WHAT CAN BE DONE TO REDUCE THE RISKS OF GARDEN USES OF CCA-TREATED WOOD?


Last edited by camprn on 1/15/2012, 9:26 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : I didn't mention that you needed to click on the linked page to go to a PDF file.)

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  camprn on 1/15/2012, 9:25 am

Thanks for posting the link to that fact sheet on CCA treated wood. I noted it was written in 2001. Since that time there have been restrictions applied to it's use. Here is an update on CCA use, dated July 2011.
Chromated Copper Arsenate (CCA)

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  llama momma on 1/15/2012, 9:40 am

I read the article - I never heard of rubber lumber, 50% rubber 50% lumber. They keep trying to find ways to get rid of all those tires.

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Pressure treated wood

Post  tomperrin on 1/15/2012, 10:31 am

Our local landfill charges a hefty premium for disposal of all pressure treated wood products. We're subject to a $1000 fine if we mix pressure treated wood in with other wood at the dump. We have found that pressure treated wood does deteriorate over time. Therefore, I would think that the chemicals would be released into the soil. When purchased from the box stores, this wood is wet, virtually dripping with chemicals.

Consequently, we have removed most of it from our property and won't purchase any more. We now use 1" x 7" x 48" white cedar lumber for all our squares. This ages nicely, does not need painting with either latex or oil based paints, is easy to work with, and relatively light in weight. Cedar repels some insects and smells nice. Another possibility is locust. Locust is quite heavy and dense. We use it for fence posts. Locust used for SFG should outlast the gardener, the gardener's children, and the gardener's grandchildren. Neither cedar nor locust will ever release any nasty chemicals into the soil. If and when they do begin to decompose, they can be reinforced with new wood, or simply replaced.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  llama momma on 1/15/2012, 10:43 am

I'm interested in white cedar and will check out the prices here. I guess it is priced similar to red cedar?

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  GWN on 1/15/2012, 11:05 am

Hi there, so glad you finally found out what was causing your problems.
I have recently recovered from an advanced cancer treated with chemo and radiation.
In looking back a what could have possibly caused it (I am a health freak and long distance runner), I am convinced that all these artificial chemicals play a part. WHere I was living I knew of 3 women on one road who died of ovarian cancer. I was living in a heavy farming area where many herbicides were used. We were all on wells....
Why is it that nowadays everyone seems to have cancer?
So this is why I am gardening to beat the band. So I know where everything comes from. We have built all of our raised beds with white cedar that we had milled when we built our house. (all the trees that had to be cut down)
This year I have ordered quinoia seeds and am going to attempt to grow it and then make bread with it.


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White Cedar vs Red Cedar

Post  tomperrin on 1/15/2012, 7:38 pm

I suspect white cedar would be cheaper than red cedar. My white cedar was grown in Canada, milled in New York. White Cedar is not an endangered species, and should be plentiful anywhere east of the Mississippi. That said, you may have to hunt for it. The box stores don't carry it in my area.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

Post  llama momma on 1/15/2012, 11:19 pm

Interesting tomperrin, I will check it out. Thanks.

And GWN I like quinoa very much. It's been around since biblical times. I've been aware of it the past couple years, it is versatile and is a great source of meatless protein. Also for anyone looking to go wheat free and gluten free too. I never thought about growing it. Interesting have to check that out too. Thanks.

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Re: Lining Boxees with Polyurethane Spray?

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