Square Foot Gardening Forum
[table bgcolor=#000000 height=275][tr][td]

Hello Guest!
Welcome to the official Square Foot Gardening Forum.
There's lots to learn here by reading as a guest. However, if you become a member (it's free, ad free and spam-free) you'll have access to our large vermiculite databases, our seed exchange spreadsheets, Mel's Mix calculator, and many more members' pictures in the Gallery. Enjoy.


[/td][/tr][/table]
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 

 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» Bee 'Sleeping' in Cucumber Flower
by hammock gal Today at 7:10 am

» Store Bought Compost
by plantoid Today at 6:58 am

» Amaranth
by AtlantaMarie Today at 6:57 am

» It's actually more like surviving.... these days...
by AtlantaMarie Today at 6:56 am

» Water....
by plantoid Today at 6:44 am

» CANADIAN REGION: What are you doing in August 2017? 2017
by Kelejan Today at 1:09 am

» Mid-Atl - Aug 2017 - Planning/Planting Fall/Winter Garden
by BeetlesPerSqFt Yesterday at 11:22 pm

» N & C Midwest: August is here!!! 2017
by Scorpio Rising Yesterday at 9:58 pm

» Monarch Supporter
by Scorpio Rising Yesterday at 6:54 pm

» Third Year SFG in Canada
by trolleydriver Yesterday at 6:00 pm

» Top Dressing with Compost
by donnainzone5 Yesterday at 3:59 pm

» What do you know about making sauerkraut?
by CapeCoddess Yesterday at 3:55 pm

» who has chickens
by sanderson Yesterday at 3:53 pm

» Heat wave and shade screen
by jimmy cee Yesterday at 2:15 pm

» Sweet Potatoes
by countrynaturals Yesterday at 1:33 pm

» Newbie Oldbie
by CapeCoddess Yesterday at 1:02 pm

» cherokee purple...seed to dish
by CapeCoddess Yesterday at 12:57 pm

» I feel VERY fortunate!
by AtlantaMarie Yesterday at 8:28 am

» Things You Never Knew Existed Until SFG...
by llama momma Yesterday at 6:47 am

» Anyone want walking onions??
by RoOsTeR 8/15/2017, 9:27 pm

» What weed? is this? (with pic)
by yolos 8/15/2017, 8:53 pm

» Ground Cherries
by Scorpio Rising 8/15/2017, 7:18 pm

» What are you eating from your garden today?
by Scorpio Rising 8/15/2017, 7:17 pm

» What I've learned this year
by countrynaturals 8/15/2017, 4:38 pm

» Grow Produce from Produce!
by CapeCoddess 8/15/2017, 4:09 pm

» Zombie Gardening!
by countrynaturals 8/15/2017, 4:01 pm

» Butterfly Junction
by countrynaturals 8/15/2017, 3:38 pm

» Intro for this region...
by Browndog 8/15/2017, 2:42 pm

» Easy and Fabulous Crockpot Marinara
by sanderson 8/15/2017, 1:37 pm

» Huge Box of Seeds from 2003!
by countrynaturals 8/15/2017, 12:56 pm

Google

Search SFG Forum

Inoculation: yea or nay?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  boffer on 1/26/2012, 12:58 am

Inoculants are naturally occurring bacteria found in soil. Legumes and the bacteria have a deal: The bacteria live in nodules on the root structure of legumes; the legume plants provide the bacteria with food; the bacteria take nitrogen from the air and make it available for the legume plant to use. If there is no bacteria in the soil, the legumes will take up nitrogen from the soil just like any other plant.1

Some soil has the bacteria; some doesn't. If a legume has been planted in a certain location for a harvest cycle, the bacteria from the plant should remain for 3-5 years. If a location hasn't been used to grow legumes, odds are, there are no bacteria present that the legumes are buddies with.

For large scale farming, the cost of inoculant is in the $5 range for an acre's worth of seed. To add nitrogen fertilizer to that acre can be in the $150 range. You can see that it's much more cost effective for a large scale farmer to make sure the legumes can make their own nitrogen (by inoculating) rather than providing nitrogen by fertilizing.

Now let's look at backyard size gardens or container gardens. If your growing medium is properly fertilized, your peas and beans can grow just fine without being inoculated. Many of us have done it; I never heard of inoculants until my fourth year of SFG. I'm going into my sixth year, and I still haven't used inoculants.

Are inoculants valuable for the home gardener? I can't find substantial proof one way or another. I keep finding anecdotal stories, and resigned comments such as this:
Legume inoculants may or may not be necessary for maximum yields, but professional farmers use it, so I figure it makes sense to hedge my bets.
We have already seen that professional farmers inoculate because they can't afford not to. And then there was this from the website of a big seed supplier...
Many people grow successful stands of legumes from seed that was not inoculated. However, inoculating the seed is good insurance that the plant will be properly equipped to grow to its maximum potential and compete.
I am at a loss to find studies that show consistently improved yields for backyard gardeners when using inoculants.

Are legumes less efficient at taking up nitrogen from soil than other plants? Does cool soil, which peas are usually planted in, restrict the uptake of nitrogen? Are legumes a heavier feeder of nitrogen than most plants? I don't know. I suggest that MM provides sufficient nitrogen for peas and beans because I don't have the obvious signs of nitrogen deficiency. I have no way to compare my harvest quantity. In the ANSFG book, Mel doesn't say anything about using inoculant for beans, and for peas, he says: "inoculate to give them a boost". He does not say exactly what that means.

If you are planting beans or peas for the first time in new MM, you could do a comparison test. Plant one half with inoculated seed; plant one half with seed that was not inoculated. See which one does best, and let us know.

If you want to try inoculating:
  • A nursery is more likely to have inoculants than a big box store, or get it online
  • Each legume has a specific bacteria that it likes ie you would get one type of bacteria for your peas, and another type of bacteria for your beans
  • Inoculants are living organisms, and have an expiration date; they won't keep a year
  • Protect your inoculants from excessive heat, dessication, and direct sunlight
  • Most inoculants for home gardeners are in powder form
  • Generally, to inoculate, you dust your seeds with the inoculant. It's that simple, but do read and follow the instructions on the package!
As an example, here is a catalog page for inoculents from Johnny's Seeds.




Note 1: Go here to learn more about the process of nitrogen fixing.
avatar
boffer

Male Posts : 7392
Join date : 2010-02-26
Age : 64
Location : yelm, wa, usa

View user profile http://boffer.us/

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  jpatti on 1/26/2012, 1:03 am

I always add it to peas, beans and clover, but can't say whether it helps or not as I've never not added it.

I figure... it's cheap insurance.
avatar
jpatti

Female Posts : 117
Join date : 2012-01-18
Location : zone 6b

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  Squat_Johnson on 1/26/2012, 12:24 pm

I did use it for the first time last year. *Seemed* to work great for my spring peas. I put it on all the peas.

I did do a test with my fall beans crop. I inoculated a 4x4, and just planted the other one. The result was no difference. Both were a huge crop.


avatar
Squat_Johnson

Male Posts : 440
Join date : 2010-05-25
Location : Beaver Dam, Kentucky, zone 6a

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  Furbalsmom on 1/26/2012, 12:39 pm

Squat,

Had you grown beans in this specific area previously?

Just curious if that makes a difference?
avatar
Furbalsmom

Female Posts : 3141
Join date : 2010-06-10
Age : 70
Location : Coastal Oregon, Zone 9a, Heat Zone 2 :(

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  januaryX on 1/26/2012, 12:56 pm

I wasn't very happy with my pea harvest last year. Was it because:

A. I didn't use Mel's Mix?
B. I didn't use inoculant?
C. The kids ate them behind my back?
D. All of the above?

Very Happy
avatar
januaryX

Posts : 51
Join date : 2012-01-10
Location : CA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  Squat_Johnson on 1/26/2012, 4:10 pm

@Furbalsmom, they were new boxes. In the spring, they had their first crops, neither were legumes. I did my 'lil experiment in the fall.
avatar
Squat_Johnson

Male Posts : 440
Join date : 2010-05-25
Location : Beaver Dam, Kentucky, zone 6a

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  Furbalsmom on 1/26/2012, 5:42 pm

Thanks, Squat.



I had heard that innoculant was most helpful for an area that was getting it's first legume crop.. Appears it did not make a difference here.
avatar
Furbalsmom

Female Posts : 3141
Join date : 2010-06-10
Age : 70
Location : Coastal Oregon, Zone 9a, Heat Zone 2 :(

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  plantoid on 1/26/2012, 5:51 pm

Interesting Boffer.
When I first heard of them I though it was the mould spores you can use that enter the plant roots interact with the nitrogen in the soil giving the plamnts food... looks like I need to research much more .
avatar
plantoid

Male Posts : 3718
Join date : 2011-11-09
Age : 66

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  boffer on 1/26/2012, 6:45 pm

Plantoid, I'm surprised you haven't come across inoculants. Any chance you know them by another name? Or, maybe the bacteria are native, or more widespread in GB due to being farmed for 1000s of years?
avatar
boffer

Male Posts : 7392
Join date : 2010-02-26
Age : 64
Location : yelm, wa, usa

View user profile http://boffer.us/

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  plantoid on 1/26/2012, 6:57 pm

There is a fungus spore that we can buy .. mainly used when transplanting small shrubs & trees once you have dug and manured the hole.
..
You're supposed to sprinkle a few hands full on top of the bare roots , cover with good soil then lightly tread the soil on to the roots before back filling the hole.

This place we live in was built on a hillside on virgin clay .. no known habitation or cultivation here for donkeys years.
I'm told that since the place was built 32 years ago no one has ever tried to garden as the soil is stickly heavy blue clay & rubble back fill .

For the last five of years I modified the clay with manures ,sand ,compost and gypsum to get 18 inches of rubble free friable soil .. I've grown a load of peas and not noticed any reduction to those grown elsewhere in any of my other homes.
avatar
plantoid

Male Posts : 3718
Join date : 2011-11-09
Age : 66

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  shannon1 on 1/27/2012, 4:08 am

I had very goods results useing inuculent with my soybeans last year Did not inuculate my peas and they did rather poorly. Each requires a different one. It is impossible to tell with all the other vairibles if that had anything to do with it but still I will use it evey time I grow legumes in a new place now
avatar
shannon1

Posts : 1697
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : zone 9a St.Johns county FL

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  plantoid on 1/27/2012, 6:42 pm

I've done a bit of reading about the use of inoculants today.
It seems a cheap biological way of getting nutrients into a plant , it says you cannot over use the inoculants as they don't cause any poroblems.
Though I wonder what the real long term effect on /in the ground will be for nature has it's own way of balancing things out in the course of time?

It appears they are not used much in the UK outside of the crafts of professional horticulturists, propagationists and nurserymen .

So far I haven't found anything about them being used in UK farming as crop enhancers.
avatar
plantoid

Male Posts : 3718
Join date : 2011-11-09
Age : 66

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  AvaDGardner on 2/18/2012, 12:16 am

I was asking at the box store about inoculates yesterday!

They did not carry any. However, they said if you use any of the Kellogg's planting mixes products, the inoculates are already there.

I do use Kellogg's NRich compost to replenish/refill my rose beds (they get blow out/ washed out over the seasons). As an added bonus, it comes with red wriggler worms! But it wouldn't have inoculates (it's not a planting mix) and it isn't in my veggie garden.

The only real way to tell if the nitrogen had changed is to soil test before and after. Ferry-Morris sells a kit for $3.27 (pH, N, P, K). Very easy to use. Instructions (and corrections) are included. (DOH! I just realized while Kellogg's calls it this!)

With my new plot, I did soil test, and it is very high in N. On a whim I tested my rose beds and a patio area that has laid fallow for many years after growing....peas & beans! It was N dead. No wonder I didn't need to weed it all these years! Just the occasional Orange Oxalis would pop up near the hose. A AloeVera at the far end loved it.
avatar
AvaDGardner

Female Posts : 631
Join date : 2012-02-17
Location : Garden Grove, CA (still Zone 10b)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  Unmutual on 2/18/2012, 7:15 am

Commercial farmers can't afford not to inoculate and use chemical fertilizer because tillage destroys the fertility of the soil. If your soil is healthy to begin with, you shouldn't need to add anything outside of organic material.

Having said that, I wanted to see myself, so I bought some inoculate and used it on my peas this year. They seem to be doing about the same. However, I'll be letting the plants rot in place(not the actual peas mind you, they're too yummy) since I planted them in every other square and will be planting tomatoes in the open squares this year(as another test about using legumes to add nitrogen).

While these tests are just about pointless if you do SFG by the book, I'm just a curious sort of person. I'm fairly sure that if I just threw the spent pea plants onto my compost pile, I'd end up getting most of that nitrogen(or my banana plant and lemon tree would, since I planted them close to the compost pile).

Unmutual

Certified SFG Instructor

Male Posts : 396
Join date : 2011-04-23
Age : 45
Location : Greater New Orleans Area Westbank(Zone 9b)

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Inoculation: yea or nay?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum